Re: You seem to know a lot about hats

Posted by Greg from kenn012b-154.cybertours.com on May 07, 1999 at 12:33:43:

In Reply to: You seem to know a lot about hats posted by Abner on May 07, 1999 at 12:03:10:

: : Here I go again! Since requesting some specs on Indy fedoras I have come upon some variants that facinate me. One HJ hat had a 6" open crown, 5" as measured at the sides after the crease, and 41\2" at the front pinch. Then another HJ hat measured 4 5\8" at the pinch. This is close to the first one so thats understandable, but I think this one was only 5" in the open crown state. My Gary White hat measures 4 1\2" at the front, but has a 5 1\2 open crown. My Nostalgia measures 4 1\2" at the front with a 5" open crown. Now eventhough both of my hats measure the same at the front, they look to be worlds apart. If you look at most of Indy's from the front, you will discover that he has the crown sticking up past the pinch on either side. This to my mind is what sets his hat apart from the shorter crown varieties available out there, especially the Raiders hat. I think it is very possible that different crown heights were used for the different movies, and this creates confusion. You know, whenever you see the specs of this hat on various web pages, very seldom are you given the open crown height. Wonder why, since this is of prime importance. Look at a cowboy hat catalog and you will notice open crown heights are always listed. It is my opinion that a Indy hat should have an open crown of around 5 1\2". This extra 1\2" makes a remarkable difference in the overall appearance. My wife maintains that I am obsessed with hats. She's right, and I hope I don't bore all of you too much. Steve

:
: Perhaps you could answer this question...If you were to order a hat from Herbert Johnson, what directions would you give them in order to get the most accurate hat possible?

: Cheers,
: Abner

I too, became obsessed with hats and learned probably more than anyone in the western world about hat ribbon,etc. in my quest for the perfect Indy hat. I don't know why you have had such a problem with the HJ hats. I agree, however, that even though you may order the same hat, it may come slightly different both times. My first HJ hat has a brim that is about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch shorter and the crown is definitely shorter. But my second one is a dead ringer with an open crown height of about 5 7/8 inches. I have the LC crease in it and if you look at the photos of the hat from the beginning of LC when Indy and Marcus first arrive in Venice, that is EXACTLY what mine looks like. In addition, as I have mentioned before, I think that they not only used different sized crowns throughout the films (not necessarily on purpose, but they just used what was made and supplied), but they most certainly had variations in the ribbon from the raw-edged Petersham, to the seamed edge ribbon (both of which were available in the 1930's so they are both as authentic). Both ribbon widths were about 39mm or 1 1/2 inches though.

To get a HJ hat that is the best fit, first find your size. They will need it in European (mine is usally a 7 3/8 or so which comes to a size 59). Make sure this hat size is taken with your most usual haircut. Get sized right after a good haircut. Just ask to speak to Mr. Swales since he did most of the Indy hats. Specify that you would like to order the Indy version of the Poet fedora, and make sure you be specific that you want it with the exact dark brown 39mm ribbon. You will be treated most kindly at this point since you are spending money (though expect to hear something of a "oh-not-another-INDY-hat-again" tone to his voice as I think he is a little sick and tired of yanks in particular ordering this hat, but hey, what does he expect?), and you will be asked if you would like your initials embossed in gold ink inside the hat band. This is free (as well it should be the price you are paying!). You may specify what crease you want in it but with mail-order, don't expect it to come exactly as you would have liked it and you may not like how it looks when you get it. DON'T panic though. All it takes is a little bit of wear and reshaping (I like cold water to reshape since it doesn't shrink the felt) and it should get the crease you want. Ask for some felt sizing pads if they don't offer them to you. These pads slip in between the hatband and the hat on the inside and help fit the hat if you should you get your hair cut shorter, and actually help fit the hat for a while when it is new until is shrinks down to the shape of your head. The 59 I bought was tad too big when I first got it, but it shrunk the right amount to be snug enough not to blow off without leaving too much of a red mark on my forehead. When you get the hat, before you even start wearing it, invest in a hat jack (Akubra makes a good one offered through David Morgan). I neglected to get one of these for my first hat and it no longer fits me. I bought one for this new one and I keep it in the hat whenever I am not wearing it and it still fits me perfectly. Give it some tension to keep the hat's size, but not too much that it misshapes the hat. Believe it or not, even high quality fur felt will shrink! The hat will come with a white satin lining with the burgundy HJ logo inside. It really is a pretty hat. When you open the box for the first time, don't be surprised if you gasp in awe just a little!

Sorry to ramble, but one last note on the HJ hat-if you intend on wearing it only on special occasions with a smart suit and tie, great-keep it in great condition. However, if you are just going to wear it whenever, don't be too afraid of getting it damaged. As an experiment, once my old hat no longer fit comfortably, I got up the courage to get it extremely filthy and sat on it, etc. It only looked more and more like the film hats (I don't know why this amazed me). I guess I'm just trying to say don't baby the hat-the fur felt is a lot more durable than you may think! Good luck and happy hat-wearing!

Greg

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: : :      Here I go again! Since requesting some specs on Indy fedoras I have come upon some variants that facinate me. One HJ hat had a 6" open crown, 5" as measured at the sides after the crease, and 41\2" at the front pinch. Then another HJ hat measured 4 5\8" at the pinch. This is close to the first one so thats understandable, but I think this one was only 5" in the open crown state. My Gary White hat measures 4 1\2" at the front, but has a 5 1\2 open crown. My Nostalgia measures 4 1\2" at the front with a 5" open crown. Now eventhough both of my hats measure the same at the front, they look to be worlds apart. If you look at most of Indy's from the front, you will discover that he has the crown sticking up past the pinch on either side. This to my mind is what sets his hat apart from the shorter crown varieties available out there, especially the Raiders hat. I think it is very possible that different crown heights were used for the different movies, and this creates confusion. You know, whenever you see the specs of this hat on various web pages, very seldom are you given the open crown height. Wonder why, since this is of prime importance. Look at a cowboy hat catalog and you will notice open crown heights are always listed. It is my opinion that a Indy hat should have an open crown of around 5 1\2". This extra 1\2" makes a remarkable difference in the overall appearance. My wife maintains that I am obsessed with hats. She's right, and I hope I don't bore all of you too much.   Steve

: : 
: : Perhaps you could answer this question...If you were to order a hat from Herbert Johnson, what directions would you give them in order to get the most accurate hat possible?

: : Cheers,
: : Abner

: 
: I too, became obsessed with hats and learned probably more than anyone in the western world about hat ribbon,etc. in my quest for the perfect Indy hat.  I don't know why you have had such a problem with the HJ hats.  I agree, however, that even though you may order the same hat, it may come slightly different both times.  My first HJ hat has a brim that is about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch shorter and the crown is definitely shorter.  But my second one is a dead ringer with an open crown height of about 5 7/8 inches.  I have the LC crease in it and if you look at the photos of the hat from the beginning of LC when Indy and Marcus first arrive in Venice, that is EXACTLY what mine looks like.  In addition, as I have mentioned before, I think that they not only used different sized crowns throughout the films (not necessarily on purpose, but they just used what was made and supplied), but they most certainly had variations in the ribbon from the raw-edged Petersham, to the seamed edge ribbon (both of which were available in the 1930's so they are both as authentic).  Both ribbon widths were about 39mm or 1 1/2 inches though.

: To get a HJ hat that is the best fit, first find your size.  They will need it in European (mine is usally a 7 3/8 or so which comes to a size 59).  Make sure this hat size is taken with your most usual haircut.  Get sized right after a good haircut.  Just ask to speak to Mr. Swales since he did most of the Indy hats.  Specify that you would like to order the Indy version of the Poet fedora, and make sure you be specific that you want it with the exact dark brown 39mm ribbon.  You will be treated most kindly at this point since you are spending money (though expect to hear something of a "oh-not-another-INDY-hat-again" tone to his voice as I think he is a little sick and tired of yanks in particular ordering this hat, but hey, what does he expect?), and you will be asked if you would like your initials embossed in gold ink inside the hat band.  This is free (as well it should be the price you are paying!).  You may specify what crease you want in it but with mail-order, don't expect it to come exactly as you would have liked it and you may not like how it looks when you get it.  DON'T panic though.  All it takes is a little bit of wear and reshaping (I like cold water to reshape since it doesn't shrink the felt) and it should get the crease you want.  Ask for some felt sizing pads if they don't offer them to you.  These pads slip in between the hatband and the hat on the inside and help fit the hat if you should you get your hair cut shorter, and actually help fit the hat for a while when it is new until is shrinks down to the shape of your head.  The 59 I bought was tad too big when I first got it, but it shrunk the right amount to be snug enough not to blow off without leaving too much of a red mark on my forehead.  When you get the hat, before you even start wearing it, invest in a hat jack (Akubra makes a good one offered through David Morgan).  I neglected to get one of these for my first hat and it no longer fits me.  I bought one for this new one and I keep it in the hat whenever I am not wearing it and it still fits me perfectly.  Give it some tension to keep the hat's size, but not too much that it misshapes the hat.  Believe it or not, even high quality fur felt will shrink!  The hat will come with a white satin lining with the burgundy HJ logo inside.  It really is a pretty hat. When you open the box for the first time, don't be surprised if you gasp in awe just a little!

: Sorry to ramble, but one last note on the HJ hat-if you intend on wearing it only on special occasions with a smart suit and tie, great-keep it in great condition.  However, if you are just going to wear it whenever, don't be too afraid of getting it damaged.  As an experiment, once my old hat no longer fit comfortably, I got up the courage to get it extremely filthy and sat on it, etc.  It only looked more and more like the film hats (I don't know why this amazed me).  I guess I'm just trying to say don't baby the hat-the fur felt is a lot more durable than you may think!  Good luck and happy hat-wearing!

: Greg

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