Re: THE MORALITY OF BEING AN INTERNATIONAL TREASURE HUNTER / ARCHAEOLOGIST

Posted by Mary from proxy-521.public.rwc.webtv.net on May 07, 1999 at 17:12:00:

In Reply to: Re: THE MORALITY OF BEING AN INTERNATIONAL TREASURE HUNTER / ARCHAEOLOGIST posted by belloq on December 12, 1998 at 00:52:32:

: : Hey, how are you all doing?
: : Recently is Scotland there was a case in the newspapers of a legal fight to have a cultural artefact returned to it's origins. In the Kelvingrove Art Galleries in Glasgow (about 30 miles from where I stay), there was housed a Sioux Ghost shirt which was reputedly taken from a dead Sioux brave after the Wounded Knee massacre. This shirt was brought to Scotland by Bufallo Bill's Wild West show and presented to the people of Glasgow as a gift. However, whilst over on vacation an American lawyer (who just happened to be native American) saw the shirt and thus began the long process which, quite rightly, resulted in the return of the shirt. I followed this case with interest and it started an interesting thought process. Does Indy have any moral justification in removing these artefacts from their place of origin. Sure, it's different with the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail because as Henry Sr. puts it . . . "It's a race against evil". The Nazi's couldn't have been allowed to get hold of these artefacts.

: : However, I am more concerned with the Fertility god at the beginning of Raiders. Indy risks life and limb to obtain this idol and then tells Belloq : "It's a pity the Hovito's don't know you the way I do Belloq". But what was Belloq doing that was fundamentally different to what Indy was doing? I mean this idol was obviously very precious and important to the Hovitos and if Indy had succeeded it would be housed in a museum thousands of miles away. Being looked at by largely disinterested people.

: : Yet a year earlier he gave up the remaining Sankara stone and presented it to the villagers. Why? What was the difference between the Hovitos and the Indian villagers.

: : I'd like to hear some differing viewpoints on this matter. Does Indy have any rights to remove precious relics from living cultures (no matter how nasty they get with their blowpipes)?.

: : Seeya, Hannibal.

: : The motivation of the character Indiana Jones is driven by the fundamental nature of competition. You cannot compete alone. One has to assume that Indy knows there are others less scrupulous than he seeking treasure. These opportunistic raiders motivations are personal gain either for oneself or by contract with someone else. The character belloq is such a person. On the other hand, Indy represents those who appreciate the historical, anthropological or artistic values of archeological finds. In this fictional account the competition may be summed: if Indiana Jones does not retrieve these artifacts first, the raiders will and then sell to the highest bidder, rendering the world ignorant of the knowledge or beauty of the particular object or site. This is the main difference:

VIEW

I heard of this instance that you are speaking. Yes, it should have been returned to the Sioux Nation. What people forget or don't know is that these Indian artifacts are not just everyday appliances. A Ghost Shirt is a piece worn for the Spirit Dance. The Spirit Dance was outlawed by the white man because it brought Natve Americans together. And this scared them. They came together to give thanks and ask for courage. Courage from the Great Spirit, of which the white man calls God. Courage at a time when the Native Americans were being exterminated as a People, by European settlers who went by the motto, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian". A Ghost Shirt is the equivalent of a Priest vestual, a Rabbi's shroud, or a Deacon's frock. A Native American would never think of stealing, defacing, and or selling one's Spiritual beliefs Nor would one wish to answer to the Great Spirit for doing so. These are crimes of a Spiritual nature. I am only happy and deeply moved at the sincere understanding and empathy of the the people of Scotland evidenced by the return of such an important and meaningful article. It is a very difficult job and very painstaking, but with continued pursuit, we as a combined Indian Nation and the help of others such as your community, will be able to sustain as a People. A very proud and peaceful People. Though, unfortunately, there are STILL many others of the Country who would not like us to prevail.

Thank You,
Shoshone/Mission Indian
Mary

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: 
: : : Hey, how are you all doing?
: : :               Recently is Scotland there was a case in the newspapers of a legal fight to have a cultural artefact returned to it's origins.  In the Kelvingrove Art Galleries in Glasgow (about 30 miles from where I stay), there was housed a Sioux Ghost shirt which was reputedly taken from a dead Sioux brave after the Wounded Knee massacre.  This shirt was brought to Scotland by Bufallo Bill's Wild West show and presented to the people of Glasgow as a gift.  However, whilst over on vacation an American lawyer (who just happened to be native American) saw the shirt and thus began the long process which, quite rightly, resulted in the return of the shirt.  I followed this case with interest and it started an interesting thought process.  Does Indy have any moral justification in removing these artefacts from their place of origin.  Sure, it's different with the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail because as Henry Sr. puts it . . . "It's a race against evil".  The Nazi's couldn't have been allowed to get hold of these artefacts.

: : :     However, I am more concerned with the Fertility god at the beginning of Raiders.  Indy risks life and limb to obtain this idol and then tells Belloq : "It's a pity the Hovito's don't know you the way I do Belloq".  But what was Belloq doing that was fundamentally different to what Indy was doing?  I mean this idol was obviously very precious and important to the Hovitos and if Indy had succeeded it would be housed in a museum thousands of miles away.  Being looked at by largely disinterested people.

: : :    Yet a year earlier he gave up the remaining Sankara stone and presented it to the villagers.  Why?  What was the difference between the Hovitos and the Indian villagers.

: : :    I'd like to hear some differing viewpoints on this matter.  Does Indy have any rights to remove precious relics from living cultures (no matter how nasty they get with their blowpipes)?.

: : : Seeya, Hannibal.

: : : The motivation of the character Indiana Jones is driven by the fundamental nature of competition.  You cannot compete alone.  One has to assume that Indy knows there are others less scrupulous than he seeking treasure.  These opportunistic raiders motivations are personal gain either for oneself or by contract with someone else.  The character belloq is such a person.  On the other hand, Indy represents those who appreciate the historical, anthropological or artistic values of archeological finds.  In this fictional account the competition may be summed: if Indiana Jones does not retrieve these artifacts first, the raiders will and then sell to the highest bidder, rendering the world ignorant of the knowledge or beauty of the particular object or site.  This is the main difference:

: 
:                           VIEW

: 
: I heard of this instance that you are speaking. Yes, it should have been returned to the Sioux Nation. What people forget or don't know is that these Indian artifacts are not just everyday appliances. A Ghost Shirt is a piece worn for the Spirit Dance. The Spirit Dance was outlawed by the white man because it brought Natve Americans together. And this scared them. They came together to give thanks and ask for courage. Courage from the Great Spirit, of which the white man calls God. Courage at a time when the Native Americans were being exterminated as a People, by European settlers who went by the motto, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian". A Ghost Shirt is the equivalent of a Priest vestual, a Rabbi's shroud, or a Deacon's frock. A Native American would never think of stealing, defacing, and or selling one's Spiritual beliefs Nor would one wish to answer to the Great Spirit for doing so. These are crimes of a Spiritual nature. I am only happy and deeply moved at the sincere understanding and empathy of the the people of Scotland evidenced by the return of such an important and meaningful article. It is a very difficult job and very painstaking, but with continued pursuit, we as a combined Indian Nation and the help of others such as your community, will be able to sustain as a People. A very proud and peaceful People. Though, unfortunately, there are STILL many others of the Country who would not like us to prevail.

: Thank You,
: Shoshone/Mission Indian  
: Mary

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