Re: Indy Novels - Best to Worst, And Why (Repost)

Posted by Galacter from ts002d25.las-nv.concentric.net on May 12, 1999 at 03:07:28:

In Reply to: Re: Indy Novels - Best to Worst, And Why (Repost) posted by sas c|:) on May 11, 1999 at 03:35:58:

: Hi! I have read your list but I really can't agree with your rating. I really don't want to offend you in any way but some of your comment really sound ... well strange to me.

Well, I welcome most responses, but I wish you'd elaborate and back yourself up with stronger writing and more examples. I'll rebuke as best I can with what you've given me.
7 Veils / RM - 5

: 2-3. This book is slow and makes the reader drowsy. There is nothing of Indy's great visual action from the movies.

Slow? How do you figure that? The opening chapter sets up the plot and Indy and Dierdre are in the lost city before we're barely half-way through the book. As far as visuals and excellent writing, MacGregor's descriptive use of colors and the machinations of the society's magic provide very strong visual backbone. Another essential stregnth in RM's writing was his excellent description of locations. I could pracitically smell streets by his writing!

: : : Dino's Eggs / MM - 5

: 4. Dinosaur Eggs really has a lot from ToD.

Well, not really. The opening was a direct connection, and true, it ALSO takes place in Asia, but there is really little else (no big moral decisions, like freeing slave children or anything, and with an archeological find still being the focal point of the story).

: : : Sky Pirates / MC - 5

: 0. This is one of the two worst Indy novels. I can't believe any publisher wanted to print this one. UFOs! Airplanes. It has absolutly nothing to do with Indy. Change his name to Jack and no Indy fan will ever buy it.

You fail to be convincing at all. WHY was it bad? Just because it featured UFO's? That would be very close minded, especially of an Indy fan. Caidin's technical expertise lended much credibility to the concept (and remember they did turn out to be jet-craft). Sending Indy on a techno-adventure was just the breath of fresh air that the Indy books needed, and it was great to see how that Techno angle translated to a here whose prime-time was in the early thirties. Caiding dfid a truly masterful job (sure, some of Indy's dialogue was clumsy, but an editor with a sharp eye could have helped him out there - and then it was never clumsy enough that I had to say 'bagh' to the otherwise fascinating book).

: : : Unicorn's Legacy / RM - 4

: 3. Slow as all MacGregor novels. But "anti-climax" is the right word for his books.

Well, being they are books, it's best not to try and dwell on fast-paced action scenes that would lose impact without the benefits of a visual presentation. Even Ian Fleming knew better than to dwell on them for too long. The action scenes in McCoy's books come off as procrastinate towrd writing for the characters and the story they are engaged in.

RM was a master at quick, abrupt shoot-outs and simple-level fisticuffs, the occasional chase sequence.

: : : Dance of the Giant's / RM - 4
:
: 2-3. I really wonder where you see that "excellent writing"...

In the tension that builds up during the Druid ritual at Stonehenge for the large part. I was honestly getting creeped out! Again, the description of locales is excellent. I've been to England, and MacGregor captures the landscape very well (not as well as Caidin does in White Witch though).

: : : The White Witch / MC - 4

: I was not able to force myself to read this one. But I will do so! One day.

AHAHAH! Ah, quit being nitpicky! If the Indy novels were so bad, then you shoulda' stopped a lot earlier.

: : : The Interior World / RM - 3
: : : Another strongly fantasy-oriented book. RM's magnificent writing keeps it from being too unbelievable, and it was good to keep Indy hopped up on the goofballs to explain the D&D trappings! I particularly liked how Marcus explained where Indy REALLY was at the end.

: 0. This is the second of the two worst novels! No plot

Plot: Indy is decieved into venturing Indy strange territory before eventually dissappearing and finding himself in an environment that seems to confirm widely acknowledged, scientific theories that there may be a civilization living on the inside of the Earth. How could that not be interesting?

: no sense, it's like Indy after a lobotomy.

Speaking of sense....

: : : The Philospher's Stone / MM - 3

: 5. This is how an Indy novel should be: Plot, timing, action, adventure - everything mixed up in the right way.

The plot wasn't all that exciting. Apart from the fact that his object was the Philosopher's Stone, there was nothing to styilize it from any other IJ-adventure (even then, the P-stone had already been done - albiet not nearly as well)!

There was some good timing and action, but without a good story and interesting villains, neither of which were prominent here, I didn't care what happened to anyone other than Indy. Even then there were no particularly clever escapes, not like some of the scenes in McCoy's other books. 'N' pretty much all the books have a good deal of adventure (save maybe for Peril at Delphi).

: : : Peril at Delphi / RM - 3
: : : Nice characterizations, and a good deal of mystery, but ultimately a typical IJ-excercise with an anti-climax. Greek was a fresh choice for location, though.

: 2. Again an absolutly static plot, clumsy characters + the whole story as slow as the readers can go (without dropping the book).

I think we're in good agreement on this one - though Indy's character really came through.

: : : Hollow Earth / MM - 2
: : : Essentially a pale imitation of 'Interior World'. He was cool not be too contradictory with RM's novel, and though the first half is pretty good, the latter half is neither exciting or believable. The climax smacks of his better, previous novel.

: 4-5. Except some flaws this novel is also perfect.

I'm leaving my text in this one. Could you try and counter the points I've made? What on Earthdo you cite as being good enough to call this book "perfect"?

: : : Genesis Deluge / RM - 2

: 1-2. Same as the other MacGregor books.

Naw. His other books were good.

: Have you read Blade Runner 2 and Blade Runner 3? These are *good* books.

You'd love his new book NOIR even more, then. Sort of BLADE RUNNER on ever more drugs!!!!

: : : This guy wrote the only SW books I could stomache, being the recent BOUNTY HUMTER WARS set.

Try those out too, if you like his writing style (they are not as good as his other works though).

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: : Hi! I have read your list but I really can't agree with your rating. I really don't want to offend you in any way but some of your comment really sound ... well strange to me.

: Well, I welcome most responses, but I wish you'd elaborate and back yourself up with stronger writing and more examples.  I'll rebuke as best I can with what you've given me.
: 7 Veils / RM - 5

: : 2-3. This book is slow and makes the reader drowsy. There is nothing of Indy's great visual action from the movies.

: Slow?  How do you figure that?  The opening chapter sets up the plot and Indy and Dierdre are in the lost city before we're barely half-way through the book.   As far as visuals and excellent writing, MacGregor's descriptive use of colors and the machinations of the society's magic provide very strong visual backbone.  Another essential stregnth in RM's writing was his excellent description of locations.  I could pracitically smell streets by his writing!

: 
: : : : Dino's Eggs / MM - 5

: : 4. Dinosaur Eggs really has a lot from ToD.

: Well, not really.  The opening was a direct connection, and true, it ALSO takes place in Asia, but there is really little else (no big moral decisions, like freeing slave children or anything, and with an archeological find still being the focal point of the story).

: : : : Sky Pirates / MC - 5

: : 0. This is one of the two worst Indy novels. I can't believe any publisher wanted to print this one. UFOs! Airplanes. It has absolutly nothing to do with Indy. Change his name to Jack and no Indy fan will ever buy it.

: You fail to be convincing at all.  WHY was it bad?  Just because it featured UFO's?  That would be very close minded, especially of an Indy fan.  Caidin's technical expertise lended much credibility to the concept (and remember they did turn out to be jet-craft). Sending Indy on a techno-adventure was just the breath of fresh air that the Indy books needed, and it was great to see how that Techno angle translated to a here whose prime-time was in the early thirties.  Caiding dfid a truly masterful job (sure, some of Indy's dialogue was clumsy, but an editor with a sharp eye could have helped him out there - and then it was never clumsy enough that I had to say 'bagh' to the otherwise fascinating book).

: : : : Unicorn's Legacy / RM - 4

: : 3. Slow as all MacGregor novels. But "anti-climax" is the right word for his books.

: Well, being they are books, it's best not to try and dwell on fast-paced action scenes that would lose impact without the benefits of a visual presentation.  Even Ian Fleming knew better than to dwell on them for too long.  The action scenes in McCoy's books come off as procrastinate towrd writing for the characters and the story they are engaged in.

: RM was a master at quick, abrupt shoot-outs and simple-level fisticuffs, the occasional chase sequence.

: : : : Dance of the Giant's / RM - 4
: :
: : 2-3. I really wonder where you see that "excellent writing"...

: In the tension that builds up during the Druid ritual at Stonehenge for the large part.  I was honestly getting creeped out!  Again, the description of locales is excellent.  I've been to England, and MacGregor captures the landscape very well (not as well as Caidin does in White Witch though).

: : : : The White Witch / MC - 4

: : I was not able to force myself to read this one. But I will do so! One day.

: AHAHAH! Ah, quit being nitpicky!  If the Indy novels were so bad, then you shoulda' stopped a lot earlier.

: : : : The Interior World / RM - 3
: : : : Another strongly fantasy-oriented book.  RM's magnificent writing keeps it from being too unbelievable, and it was good to keep Indy hopped up on the goofballs to explain the D&D trappings!  I particularly liked how Marcus explained where Indy REALLY was at the end.

: : 0. This is the second of the two worst novels! No plot

: Plot:  Indy is decieved into venturing Indy strange territory before eventually dissappearing and finding himself in an environment that seems to confirm widely acknowledged, scientific theories that there may be a civilization living on the inside of the Earth.  How could that not be interesting?

: : no sense, it's like Indy after a lobotomy.

: Speaking of sense....

: : : : The Philospher's Stone / MM - 3

: : 5. This is how an Indy novel should be: Plot, timing, action, adventure - everything mixed up in the right way.

: The plot wasn't all that exciting.  Apart from the fact that his object was the Philosopher's Stone, there was nothing to styilize it from any other IJ-adventure (even then, the P-stone had already been done - albiet not nearly as well)!

: There was some good timing and action, but without a good story and interesting villains, neither of which were prominent here, I didn't care what happened to anyone other than Indy.  Even then there were no particularly clever escapes, not like some of the scenes in McCoy's other books.  'N' pretty much all the books have a good deal of adventure (save maybe for Peril at Delphi).

: : : : Peril at Delphi / RM - 3
: : : : Nice characterizations, and a good deal of mystery, but ultimately a typical IJ-excercise with an anti-climax.  Greek was a fresh choice for location, though.

: : 2. Again an absolutly static plot, clumsy characters + the whole story as slow as the readers can go (without dropping the book).

: I think we're in good agreement on this one - though Indy's character really came through.

: : : : Hollow Earth / MM - 2
: : : : Essentially a pale imitation of 'Interior World'.  He was cool not be too contradictory with RM's novel, and though the first half is pretty good, the latter half is neither exciting or believable.  The climax smacks of his better, previous novel.

: : 4-5. Except some flaws this novel is also perfect.

: I'm leaving my text in this one.  Could you try and counter the points I've made?  What on Earthdo you cite as being good enough to call this book "perfect"?

: : : : Genesis Deluge / RM - 2

: : 1-2. Same as the other MacGregor books.

: Naw.  His other books were good.

: : Have you read Blade Runner 2 and Blade Runner 3? These are *good* books.

: You'd love his new book NOIR even more, then.   Sort of BLADE RUNNER on ever more drugs!!!!

: : : : This guy wrote the only SW books I could stomache, being the recent BOUNTY HUMTER WARS set.

: Try those out too, if you like his writing style (they are not as good as his other works though).

: G

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