Re: Whip carriers, pants & gloves... & more?

Posted by Michaelson from em12_686.utsi.edu on April 16, 1998 at 10:59:12:

In Reply to: Re: Whip carriers, pants & gloves... & more? posted by Greg on April 15, 1998 at 19:31:30:

: Whip Carrier(s): It is clear they differed movie to movie, but the ones in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade seemed consistent with one another. I have a great, large photo from TOD from a calendar I had years ago (1985 to be exact) sitting right in front of me as I write this, and this carrier is about six inches long, hanging from the belt- (Indy has the whip in hand, and so the carrier is "open" hanging down his pantleg in front) - brown leather, possibly dyed black on the side facing out when the whip is lashed in, about an inch wide, and it has a metal snap fastener-(male end) in the leather about an inch and a quarter in from the bottom, which must mean that there is the female end to the snap fastener up on the part of the carrier which is up near the belt (the top of the carrier is formed in a loop through which the belt can slide, and is thus moveable and not fixed to the belt permanently). If anyone is getting a clear picture from this rambling garble, more power to you, but if anyone would like a copy of the picture, I will try to scan it in and send it via attachment to you all if you will email me. At any rate, I believe it to be the same kind of holder that was used also in the Last Crusade, but not in Raiders, for whatever reason.

: The pants and shirts: I had a lengthy series of phone calls today which led me to talking to an assistant of Deborah Nadoolman (now Deborah Landis) who was the costume designer for Raiders of the Lost Ark ( I figured I'd go right to the bleedin' source of it all-where it all started). She spoke to Deborah and returned my call, and Deborah Nadoolman assures me that both the pants and shirt were of cotton-despite previous information which I had been led to believe myself for so long about the pants being worsted wool. I am going to attempt to cross reference this with Angels and Bermans and see what they will share if anything. Unlike some who may want similiarity (and that's fine), I am interested in authenticity, which is the reason for all of my hunting. Western Costume Company assures me that they can construct anything I desire but each piece would cost me $300 or $400. I can't afford that, and so if I can find the right materials, I can have them custom tailored for around $125 each, which is reasonable to me.

: The gloves: I spoke to Midwest Quality Gloves today in Missouri. Their phone: 1-800-821-3028. The woman I spoke to was most helpful and spent a couple of hours this afternoon researching the gloves to see if they came from Midwest. She discovered two models -apparently the model they did ship to the Raiders production (I believe the 850 and 950), one buckskin and one elkskin. She said the elkskin is rather thick, and since it was clear that his were quite thin (you can see this in the "Making of Raiders" video, as he takes them out of his jacket pocket and puts them on), they are probably the buckskin models. She is sending me a catalog and I will let you all know what I find.

: The Webley: Of note is the fact that many .455 Webleys brought to the US in one way or another were converted to .45 ACP ammunition. This is not standard .45 smith and wesson ammo. Regardless, the point I make is that if you should find a Webley with the bird's head grip and lanyard ring on the butt, six-inch octagonal barrel, but it is .45 ACP, buy it if you can because it used to be a .455. Both calibers are just as easy or as difficult (depending on your point of view) to find, so it doesn't really matter.

: It's been a busy day for me. Hope some of this helps!

: Greg
Regarding Webley cal., it does make a difference, considering that Hollywood uses 5 in 1 blanks, and they come in either .38, or .45. The revolver in Raiders was the Smith and Wesson N frame triple lock in .38-44, using the .38 cal. 5 in 1. The New Service in T of D was already a .45, and the Webley would be the .45 converted model for US use. Remember, Indy was from the USA, and Webley was, and still is, difficult at best to find .455 ammunition for, so for those reasons the .45 version would work the best over here. That conversion would have probably been to .45 ACP, making it the same cal. as the Colt auto he pulled out in the Napal scene in Raiders. Yep, one of my hobbies is gun collection too. Thanks for all the additional information. We're learning more and more. Keep up the GREAT work! Regards. Michaelson

Follow Ups:

Re: Whip carriers, pants & gloves... & more? Greg 13:46:54 4/16/98 (14)
- 1911 .45 ACP followup Michaelson 14:01:43 4/16/98 (13)
  - Re: 1911 .45 ACP followup Michaelson 14:36:48 4/16/98 (12)
    - Re: 1911 .45 ACP followup Greg 01:42:48 4/18/98 (1)
      - Re: 1911 .45 ACP followup Max Schulte 02:37:18 4/18/98 (0)
    - Re: 1911 .45 ACP followup Greg 01:31:13 4/18/98 (9)
      - Re: 1911 .45 ACP followup Michaelson 13:05:26 4/18/98 (8)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Max Schulte 05:32:51 4/19/98 (7)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Cap'n Paul 10:27:29 4/19/98 (6)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Max Schulte 10:54:49 4/19/98 (5)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Michaelson 11:39:47 4/19/98 (4)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Max Schulte 12:42:36 4/19/98 (3)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Michaelson 13:00:24 4/19/98 (2)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Max Schulte 08:55:39 4/20/98 (1)
        
        Re: Webley, 1911, etc. Michaelson 13:45:17 4/20/98 (0)

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: : Whip Carrier(s): It is clear they differed movie to movie, but the ones in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade seemed consistent with one another.  I have a great, large photo from TOD from a calendar I had years ago (1985 to be exact) sitting right in front of me as I write this, and this carrier is about six inches long, hanging from the belt- (Indy has the whip in hand, and so the carrier is "open" hanging down his pantleg in front) - brown leather, possibly dyed black on the side facing out when the whip is lashed in, about an inch wide, and it has a metal snap fastener-(male end) in the leather about an inch and a quarter in from the bottom, which must mean that there is the female  end to the snap fastener up on the part of the carrier which is up near the belt (the top of the carrier is formed in a loop through which the belt can slide, and is thus moveable and not fixed to the belt permanently).  If anyone is getting a clear picture from this rambling garble, more power to you, but if anyone would like a copy of the picture, I will try to scan it in and send it via attachment to you all if you will email me.  At any rate, I believe it to be the same kind of holder that was used also in the Last Crusade, but not in Raiders, for whatever reason.

: 
: : The pants and shirts: I had a lengthy series of phone calls today which led me to talking to an assistant of Deborah Nadoolman (now Deborah Landis) who was the costume designer for Raiders of the Lost Ark ( I figured I'd go right to the bleedin' source of it all-where it all started).  She spoke to Deborah and returned my call, and Deborah Nadoolman assures me that both the pants and shirt were of cotton-despite previous information which I had been led to believe myself for so long about the pants being worsted wool.  I am going to attempt to cross reference this with Angels and Bermans and see what they will share if anything.  Unlike some who may want similiarity (and that's fine), I am interested in authenticity, which is the reason for all of my hunting.  Western Costume Company assures me that they can construct anything I desire but each piece would cost me $300 or $400.  I can't afford that, and so if I can find the right materials, I can have them custom tailored for around $125 each, which is reasonable to me.

: 
: : The gloves:  I spoke to Midwest Quality Gloves today in Missouri.  Their phone:  1-800-821-3028.  The woman I spoke to was most helpful and spent a couple of hours this afternoon researching the gloves to see if they came from Midwest.  She discovered two models -apparently the model they did ship to the Raiders production (I believe the 850 and 950), one buckskin and one elkskin. She said the elkskin is rather thick, and since it was clear that his were quite thin (you can see this in the "Making of Raiders" video, as he takes them out of his jacket pocket and puts them on), they are probably the buckskin models.  She is sending me a catalog and I will let you all know what I find.

: 
: : The Webley:  Of note is the fact that many .455 Webleys brought to the US in one way or another were converted to .45 ACP ammunition.  This is not standard .45 smith and wesson ammo.  Regardless, the point I make is that if you should find a Webley with the bird's head grip and lanyard ring on the butt, six-inch octagonal barrel, but it is .45 ACP, buy it if you can because it used to be a .455.  Both calibers are just as easy or as difficult (depending on your point of view) to find, so it doesn't really matter.

: 
: : It's been a busy day for me.  Hope some of this helps!

: 
: : Greg
: Regarding Webley cal., it does make a difference, considering that Hollywood uses 5 in 1 blanks, and they come in either .38, or .45. The revolver in Raiders was the Smith and Wesson N frame triple lock in .38-44, using the .38 cal. 5 in 1. The New Service in T of D was already a .45, and the Webley would be the .45 converted model for US use. Remember, Indy was from the USA, and Webley was, and still is, difficult at best to find .455 ammunition for, so for those reasons the .45 version would work the best over here. That conversion would have probably been to .45 ACP, making it the same cal. as the Colt auto he pulled out in the Napal scene in Raiders.  Yep, one of my hobbies is gun collection too. Thanks for all the additional information. We're learning more and more. Keep up the GREAT work! Regards. Michaelson

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