Re: One last thing about the Webley...

Posted by Michaelson from em12_686.utsi.edu on May 04, 1998 at 13:03:32:

In Reply to: One last thing about the Webley... posted by Max Schulte on May 04, 1998 at 12:40:08:

: : : : : : : I don't know if enough people were looking at my first message so I am posting a new one.
: : : : : : : I need information and pictures of Indy's revolver from Raiders and ToD. I think that he has a Smith & Wesson N frame Triple Lock in 38-40 calibre, and a Colt New service in .45 Colt. However both these revolver's are available in many other calibers, even the .45 ACP (the colt 1911 bullet, with half moon clips)
: : : : : : : Would anyone with correct information please reply to this message or send me an email at david.rhynes@shaw.wave.ca
: : : : : : : Also sny information on pictures of Indy with these guns or picture of these gun (off the internet) would be useful.

: : : : : : : Umm...haven't you seen the previous messages in this forum? There are no pictures but a few contributers to this page have produced volumes of information regarding conversions, calibers, production notes, etc. Guys like Max Schulte and Michaelson(?) come to mind. It's all here (less the pictures) just go to the Webley strings....-CP

: : : : : As far as I know Indy is using two different guns in "Raiders of the
: : : : : Lost Ark". Like you already mentioned the N-Frame Triple Lock
: : : : : Smith & Wesson revolver but in .38-44 calibre with DA system. It seems
: : : : : to be 4" or even shorter.
: : : : : I never had one in my hands I've only seen it on pictures or in the
: : : : : movie but I think Lucasfilm added a custom-made front sight. It seems
: : : : : to be much bigger than the "original". No idea why they did this.
: : : : : Anyway, he is using the Colt 1911 in .45 ACP as well during the
: : : : : gunfight in the bar.

: : : : : I really don't know much about the revolver used in Temple of Doom
: : : : : but I'd also say it's a Colt New Service in .45 ACP.

: : : : : I have some pictures of the Webley but none of the previous guns.
: : : : : Anyway, I'll keep my eyes open...

: : : : : If you have any further questions feel free to ask. Maybe Michaelson
: : : : : will have additions or clarifications.

: : : : : Regards,

: : : : : -Max

: : : : I think we've beat this old dog to death, but we'll do it again. Yes, the T o D gun was a Colt New Service .45 ACP with half moon clips and a 4 1/2" barrel. The Smith from Raiders was equiped with fixed sights, but as Max points out, appears to have a higher front site in several scenes, indicating to me that that particular gun must of had adjustable sites, requiring a "taller" front sight to compensate for the higher rear adjustable one. Rather odd for a service gun in the field, but they were made for competition shooting. There were apparently two different Webleys used in the last movie, both the same model, but having two different grip frames, the last one being seen at Petra with a "birdhead" grip, but both in the converted .45 ACP cal. The Smith is a huge framed weapon, but then all their N frames are. Smith currently builds their model 29 and 629 .44 magnum on the same fame to this day. The old Colt New Service went away after the war, as did all their large frame revolvers until recently with the introduction of their Anaconda .44 magnum . Different frame, though. Hope this helps you. Regards. Michaelson

: : : If you really want to BUY an Indy-related gun you should first know
: : : for what purpose you wanna have it. If you just want to have a nice
: : : perforator as I use to say, I'd recommend the Webley. I think it was
: : : the best gun and the calibre is quite 'popular'. However, if you want
: : : to do some precision and "action" shooting I'd say the 1911 is ideal
: : : as you can buy upgrades/modifications. At least it's better than the
: : : Webley for t his purpose. I don't really know much about the other two
: : : guns, maybe Michaelson can help...
: : : By the way, Michaelson, I didn't know that the Colt was 4 1/2". I kinda
: : : always thought that the guns are only available in 2", 4", 6"...

: : : Regards,

: : : -Max

: : : If you have any other questions...
: : : ...feel free to email me!

: : It also depends where you reside. A good Webley, when found around here in the US, will run around $450 and upwards in price, and parts aren't exactly that easy to find here. I personally lean toward the Smith and Wesson revolver from the Raiders movie. You will probably have a time finding the correct cal., but you can still buy an N frame in .44 caliber, or even a .357 mag. N frame that will work for your collection, and can still be picked up used around $250. They have satin smooth triggers and ammo is easy to acquire. Once again, it completely depends on where you live. Smiths may not be that available where you are. Colts are out of the question, because the New Service revolver is now considered a collectors item, and though can be found at gun shows for a fair price, $350, but they will only handle lower pressure ammo because of their metalurgy. I agree with Max on the quality of the Webley, but I think they're an awful heavy revolver to pack around, myself. Any of them, though, are excellent choises, and will serve well in the field. Regards. Michaelson

: May I just recommend one last thing about the Webley: Michaelson just
: said that a used Webley is about $450 in the US. If you have good
: connections to England I'd advise you to buy one there. I know that
: there are fairly cheap there. Webley parts are also easy to get.
: You probably heard that the laws changed there (sidearms are totally
: prohibited there) and most of the gun dealers with a license could get
: these guns quite cheap there. However, I'm not sure if these guns are
: the .45ACP converted versions.
: Michaelson, I'd still say the Webley is a great collectors gun. It has
: a very interesting history and is most famous for this self-extractor
: system. You could probably compare it to the 08 Luger...

: Regards,

: -Max

Never said it wasn't a great collectors gun. I've owned two in my sorted past, and received yoemans service from both in target work, but both have gone the way of most of my other weapons, in trades for the next latest and greatest addition to my arsonel. The Webley is just to !@#$@! heavy to carry, and I carry my guns in the field. The Smith isn't that much lighter, but oz. for oz, packs easier, and has a decent punch for the caliber. There are ways and means of acquiring Webley parts, I agree. I'm just looking at someone who may be living in backwater USA, as I am, who may need the thing repaired. It won't happen here. Parts aren't available, and to get them is very expensive here. It wouldn't, though, in England, where the parts are available and dealers have access to them. Once again, I state it totally depends where you live as to what would be most desirable to own. If you never plan to fire any of them, ANY of these revolvers will do. If you like to fire your revolver, you better look hard and the after purchase availablity of a gunsmith who has the knowhow and access to parts. The Webley is an old gun and limited to what it can and cannot fire. Hot loaded .45 ACP or reloads can be the kiss of death for this old war horses. But I admit, the nice ones are absolute a work of art to the old machiniest trade. They fit together like an old bank vault. You don't find that kind of craftsmanship on a regular basis anywhere! Darn it, Max, you're making me miss my old Webley! Regards. Michaelson

Follow Ups:

Re: One last thing about the Webley... Max Schulte 13:38:06 5/04/98 (1)
- Re: One last thing about the Webley... Michaelson 13:56:31 5/04/98 (0)

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: : : : : : : : I don't know if enough people were looking at my first message so I am posting a new one.  
: : : : : : : : I need information and pictures of Indy's revolver from Raiders and ToD.  I think that he has a Smith & Wesson N frame Triple Lock in 38-40 calibre, and a Colt New service in .45 Colt.  However both these revolver's are available in many other calibers, even the .45 ACP (the colt 1911 bullet, with half moon clips)
: : : : : : : : Would anyone with correct information please reply to this message or send me an email at david.rhynes@shaw.wave.ca
: : : : : : : : Also sny information on pictures of Indy with these guns or picture of these gun (off the internet) would be useful.

: : : : : : : : Umm...haven't you seen the previous messages in this forum?  There are no pictures but a few contributers to this page have produced volumes of information regarding conversions, calibers, production notes, etc.  Guys like Max Schulte and Michaelson(?) come to mind.  It's all here (less the pictures) just go to the Webley strings....-CP

: : : : : : As far as I know Indy is using two different guns in "Raiders of the 
: : : : : : Lost Ark". Like you already mentioned the N-Frame Triple Lock 
: : : : : : Smith & Wesson revolver but in .38-44 calibre with DA system. It seems
: : : : : : to be 4" or even shorter. 
: : : : : : I never had one in my hands I've only seen it on pictures or in the 
: : : : : : movie but I think Lucasfilm added a custom-made front sight. It seems 
: : : : : : to be much bigger than the "original". No idea why they did this. 
: : : : : : Anyway, he is using the Colt 1911 in .45 ACP as well during the
: : : : : : gunfight in the bar.

: : : : : : I really don't know much about the revolver used in Temple of Doom 
: : : : : : but I'd also say it's a Colt New Service in .45 ACP.

: : : : : : I have some pictures of the Webley but none of the previous guns. 
: : : : : : Anyway, I'll keep my eyes open...

: : : : : : If you have any further questions feel free to ask. Maybe Michaelson
: : : : : : will have additions or clarifications.

: : : : : : Regards,

: : : : : : -Max

: : : : : I think we've beat this old dog to death, but we'll do it again. Yes,  the T o D gun was a Colt New Service .45 ACP with half moon clips and a 4 1/2" barrel. The Smith from Raiders was equiped with fixed sights, but as Max points out, appears to have a higher front site in several scenes, indicating to me that that particular gun must of had adjustable sites, requiring a "taller" front sight to compensate for the higher rear adjustable one. Rather odd for a service gun in the field, but they were made for competition shooting. There were apparently two different Webleys used in the last movie, both the same model, but having two different grip frames, the last one being seen at Petra with a "birdhead" grip, but both in the converted .45 ACP cal. The Smith is a huge framed weapon, but then all their N frames are. Smith currently builds their model 29 and 629 .44 magnum on the same fame to this day. The old Colt New Service went away after the war, as did all their large frame revolvers until recently with the introduction of their Anaconda .44 magnum . Different frame, though. Hope this helps you. Regards. Michaelson

: : : : If you really want to BUY an Indy-related gun you should first know
: : : : for what purpose you wanna have it. If you just want to have a nice
: : : : perforator as I use to say, I'd recommend the Webley. I think it was 
: : : : the best gun and the calibre is quite 'popular'. However, if you want
: : : : to do some precision and "action" shooting I'd say the 1911 is ideal 
: : : : as you can buy upgrades/modifications. At least it's better than the 
: : : : Webley for t his purpose. I don't really know much about the other two
: : : : guns, maybe Michaelson can help...
: : : : By the way, Michaelson, I didn't know that the Colt was 4 1/2". I kinda
: : : : always thought that the guns are only available in 2", 4", 6"...

: : : : Regards,

: : : : -Max

: : : : If you have any other questions...
: : : :                      ...feel free to email me!

: : : It also depends where you reside. A good Webley, when found around here in the US, will run around $450 and upwards in price, and parts aren't exactly that easy to find here. I personally lean toward the Smith and Wesson revolver from the Raiders movie. You will probably have a time finding the correct cal., but you can still buy an N frame in .44 caliber, or even a .357 mag. N frame that will work for your collection, and can still be picked up used around $250. They have satin smooth triggers and ammo is easy to acquire. Once again, it completely depends on where you live. Smiths may not be that available where you are. Colts are out of the question, because the New Service revolver is now considered a collectors item, and though can be found at gun shows for a fair price, $350, but they will only handle lower pressure ammo because of their metalurgy. I agree with Max on the quality of the Webley, but I think they're an awful heavy revolver to pack around, myself. Any of them, though, are excellent choises, and will serve well in the field. Regards. Michaelson

: : May I just recommend one last thing about the Webley: Michaelson just
: : said that a used Webley is about $450 in the US. If you have good
: : connections to England I'd advise you to buy one there. I know that
: : there are fairly cheap there. Webley parts are also easy to get.
: : You probably heard that the laws changed there (sidearms are totally
: : prohibited there) and most of the gun dealers with a license could get
: : these guns quite cheap there. However, I'm not sure if these guns are 
: : the .45ACP converted versions.
: : Michaelson, I'd still say the Webley is a great collectors gun. It has
: : a very interesting history and is most famous for this self-extractor
: : system. You could probably compare it to the 08 Luger...

: : Regards,

: : -Max

: Never said it wasn't a great collectors gun. I've owned two in my sorted past, and received yoemans service from both in target work, but both have gone the way of most of my other weapons, in trades for the next latest and greatest addition to my arsonel. The Webley is just to !@#$@! heavy to carry, and I carry my guns in the field. The Smith isn't that much lighter, but oz. for oz, packs easier, and has a decent punch for the caliber. There are ways and means of acquiring Webley parts, I agree. I'm just looking at someone who may be living in backwater USA, as I am, who may need the thing repaired. It won't happen here. Parts aren't available, and to get them is very expensive here. It wouldn't, though, in England, where the parts are available and dealers have access to them. Once again, I state it totally depends where you live as to what would be most desirable to own. If you never plan to fire any of them, ANY of these revolvers will do. If you like to fire your revolver, you better look hard and the after purchase availablity of a gunsmith who has the knowhow and access to parts. The Webley is an old gun and limited to what it can and cannot fire. Hot loaded .45 ACP or reloads can be the kiss of death for this old war horses. But I admit, the nice ones are absolute a work of art to the old machiniest trade. They fit together like an old bank vault. You don't find that kind of craftsmanship on a regular basis anywhere! Darn it, Max, you're making me miss my old Webley! Regards. Michaelson

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