Re: Webley calibres...

Posted by Michaelson from em12_686.utsi.edu on May 10, 1998 at 16:04:31:

In Reply to: Re: Webley calibres... posted by Max Schulte on May 10, 1998 at 07:27:06:

: : : Ahh, now I understand what you mean.

:
: : : The .45 Auto Rim, the .45 AR, is just a .45ACP with a slightly bigger

: : : rim (2mm, I think). During WWI, when the .45ACP was used for revolvers

: : : as well, the hlafmoon clips were extremely disliked by the US soldiers.

: : : When the first World War ended a private company (Peter's Co???)

: : : manufactured the .45AR.

:
: : : The .45 Auto Rim actually stands for .45 'Auto'matic 'Rim'med. So it

: : : has nothing to do with rimfire.

:
: : : In general one can say that there are no differences between the two

: : : .45 calibres. However, I think there are differences in reloading...

: : : Maybe Michaelson can give you better information or make clarifications

: : : because this calibre is relatively rare where I live and I don't know

: : : much about it. I've never had one in my hands.

:
: : : Anway, it would be an interesting question if Indy used halfmoon clips

: : : or the .45AR...

:
: : : Regards,

:
: : : -Max

:
: : Sorry for the mix-up, rim-fire, rim, my mistake. I am not as well-voiced in the handgun terminology as perhaps you and Michaelson, and certainly I do my father (who's owned guns all of his life) no justice when I try to relay what he has told me. I don't know about the scarcity of the brass, but he did order 1000 of this brass from a dealer near him, so it is apparently available, and I don't think he spent a fortune on it.

:
: : It is interesting that we all have automatically assumed that Indy was firing .45 and not .455. I think if the actual prop was a .45, they may very well have used the auto rim since when he breaks open the gun on the beach to see if he has ammo left, there is no evidence of the half or full-moon clips, indicating either .455 or .45 auto rim. Again, my untrained opinion.

: Hey, it's quite natural to mix some things up. I usually do that with
: rifle calibres.

: It IS in fact a really interesting question if the rimmed version was
: used for Last Crusade. I think there is no scene where Indy's ammo
: is shown. That's the problem with most of the props, some information
: are missin' but they are very important if you actually want to use
: them...

: Anyway, thanks for mentioning the calibre of your gun. I never thought
: of a .45 Auto Rim Webley...

: Regards,

: -Max

Nothing more I can add except except to the agreement of the fact regarding the rarity of the .45 AR ammo, except through speciality ammo stores here in the States. I believe your father's gun was a factory rebuild, because the only reference to the Mark V I can find is pre WWI revolvers, up to and including 1915, with model changeover to the Mark VI. You seem to have a build of a Mark VI top with a Mark V grip frame. This isn't uncommon, though, since Colt and Smith and Wesson did it for years from old damaged and returned military weapons from the army. The combined good parts together from the damaged parts, then either reissued the weapons, or sold them commercially. Doesn't hurt the strength of the weapon at all, and as long as the cylinder is properly timed, no damage to the revolver at all. I don't think Indy would carry two types of ammo, since his backup weapon was the Colt .45 ACP, but then we're mixing two movies together. The point that he didn't have any half moon clips in his revlover upon breaking open his Webley on the beach really doesn't hold here, as he didn't have any fired brass in the gun either. The gun was just plain unloaded at the time. Like Max said, we never see him reload anything, except in the Napal bar scene when we see his Colt frame locked open after the magazine was empty, then him look down. All we can assume, and correctly, that he had ejected the empty magazine, reloaded a fresh one, then return to the fight, because when the man comes through the door and grabs him, the slide is back in "battery" and the gun is once again firing. Regards. Michaelson

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: : : : Ahh, now I understand what you mean.

: : 
: : : : The .45 Auto Rim, the .45 AR, is just a .45ACP with a slightly bigger

: : : : rim (2mm, I think). During WWI, when the .45ACP was used for revolvers

: : : : as well, the hlafmoon clips were extremely disliked by the US soldiers.

: : : : When the first World War ended a private company (Peter's Co???)

: : : : manufactured the .45AR.

: : 
: : : : The .45 Auto Rim actually stands for .45 'Auto'matic 'Rim'med. So it

: : : : has nothing to do with rimfire.

: : 
: : : : In general one can say that there are no differences between the two

: : : : .45 calibres. However, I think there are differences in reloading...

: : : : Maybe Michaelson can give you better information or make clarifications

: : : : because this calibre is relatively rare where I live and I don't know

: : : : much about it. I've never had one in my hands.

: : 
: : : : Anway, it would be an interesting question if Indy used halfmoon clips

: : : : or the .45AR...

: : 
: : : : Regards,

: : 
: : : : -Max

: : 
: : : Sorry for the mix-up, rim-fire, rim, my mistake.  I am not as well-voiced in the handgun terminology as perhaps you and Michaelson, and certainly I do my father (who's owned guns all of his life) no justice when I try to relay what he has told me.  I don't know about the scarcity of the brass, but he did order 1000 of this brass from a dealer near him, so it is apparently available, and I don't think he spent a fortune on it.

: : 
: : : It is interesting that we all have automatically assumed that Indy was firing .45 and not .455.  I think if the actual prop was a .45, they may very well have used the auto rim since when he breaks open the gun on the beach to see if he has ammo left, there is no evidence of the half or full-moon clips, indicating either .455 or .45 auto rim.  Again, my untrained opinion.

: : Hey, it's quite natural to mix some things up. I usually do that with
: : rifle calibres.

: : It IS in fact a really interesting question if the rimmed version was 
: : used for Last Crusade. I think there is no scene where Indy's ammo
: : is shown. That's the problem with most of the props, some information
: : are missin' but they are very important if you actually want to use 
: : them...

: : Anyway, thanks for mentioning the calibre of your gun. I never thought 
: : of a .45 Auto Rim Webley...

: : Regards,

: : -Max

: Nothing more I can add except except to the agreement of the fact regarding the rarity of the .45 AR ammo, except through speciality ammo stores here in the States. I believe your father's gun was a factory rebuild, because the only reference to the Mark V I can find is pre WWI revolvers, up to and including 1915, with model changeover to the Mark VI. You seem to have a build of a Mark VI top with a Mark V grip frame. This isn't uncommon, though, since Colt and Smith and Wesson did it for years from old damaged and returned military weapons from the army. The combined good parts together from the damaged parts, then either reissued the weapons, or sold them commercially. Doesn't hurt the strength of the weapon at all, and as long as the cylinder is properly timed, no damage to the revolver at all. I don't think Indy would carry two types of ammo, since his backup weapon was the Colt .45 ACP, but then we're mixing two movies together. The point that he didn't have any half moon clips in his revlover upon breaking open his Webley on the beach really doesn't hold here, as he didn't have any fired brass in the gun either. The gun was just plain unloaded at the time. Like Max said, we never see him reload anything, except in the Napal bar scene when we see his Colt frame locked open after the magazine was empty, then him look down. All we can assume, and correctly, that he had ejected the empty magazine, reloaded a fresh one, then return to the fight, because when the man comes through the door and grabs him, the slide is back in "battery" and the gun is once again firing. Regards. Michaelson

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