Re: Regarding your loadings statement (followup)

Posted by Tarli from aw-232.saultc.on.ca on September 29, 1999 at 16:04:05:

In Reply to: Regarding your loadings statement (followup) posted by Michaelson on September 28, 1999 at 10:54:42:

: :
: : : I recently found a list of guns for sale and among them was a colt new service. This got my attention and as the seller wants to sell them all I called a friend that I believed might be interested in the package in hopes that I could buy the colt from him. (His daughter just got her fac and is looking for a few guns to begin with). He told me to meet him at the range and bring the list along with "some iron an brass". We shot for a while and then he told me he had something that would interest me, he pulled out... A colt new service in .455 that same as the one that is for sale. He'd brought a few rounds for it (it's hard to find) and allowed me to put a few rounds down range. I found it shot high and right but a little kentucky windage fixed things quick (it has fixed sights). He warned me that the hole for the primer is "ballooned" in the .455 brass as opposed to my .357 and won't take high pressure loads but he had a way around that. You can take a .45 auto rim and machine the rim down to the same width as that of the .455 and then you have a brass of the same dimensions with a thicker more solid back. I thought that this might be usefull for those of you that shoot .455 (the webley). I also thought that it brings up an issue in the world of debate on his guns. I live in Canada where handguns aren't overly common and I found two colt new services in .455 with in two days. Could it be that Indy's in TOD was chambered in .455 and therefore the webley would make a bit more sence??? I'm not stating this only as something that the experts in the forum might consider. Cheers all.

: : : Tarli

: : Good afternoon, Tarli! The fact is that the New Service you have would have been a British issue version, which in the Lend Lease Act we (USA) had during WWII with England. We sent these weapons to Britain, but in the .455 caliber which was still a British military round, though quickly replaced by more standard .38 S&W rounds in 200 grain bullet sizing. The big Colt was used by the home guard and not very many ended up in the hands of the soldiers on the front. Bear in mind that Indy was an American in 1930. The .455 was very UNcommon to find in the US, and the fact that he SUPPOSEDLY was carrying a Colt .45 ACP (script called for the .45, better eyes than mind spot a .9 mm Browning in hand in the movie. A "stunt" double gun?) would dictate that he would be more likely to be carrying .45 ACP rounds on his person, readily available in the US at this time, though still considered a military round, commercially available to the US citizen by the 1930's. Why would he then carry two different versions of cartridges that could create EXTREME problems in not only a combat situation, but be extra weight to have to deal with in travel? The Webley was only placed in Indy's hand because it was a pet revolver of the writer who wrote the LC script, and several novels there after. We need to look at what was actually available and in stock in the US at the time that Indiana Jones is set. We did not have the world product market that is so common today. We also were pretty closed door (I'm speaking as a US citizen here) toward outside market goods prior to WWII, and finding .455 British loadings on a hardware store or gun shop would have been difficult or flat impossible in the time period mentioned. But as you state above, the world of debate goes one and on. Ain't it great!!?? Appreciate your story. If you get a chance to wheel and deal on the Colt, grab it. They're getting hard to find in any caliber on the gun market. Regards. Michaelson

: One quick follow up, his description of creating brass is true, but don't go with that as being the best way regarding the "high pressure" problem. The metalurgy of the revolver is the factor here, not the brass of the ammunition. High pressure rounds should NEVER, repeat, NEVER be fired in these old guns as the steel is not the same grade as your .357. Stick with the lower pressure loadings and enjoy the revolver. If you try anything higher pressured, then expect best case scenario a blown up cylinder. Worse case, loss of gun, fingers, and maybe eyesight. The .455 was a pretty anemic loading in civilian purchases. His suggestion on the brass does indeed give you a better source of reloading material, ONLY. I'm sure you're aware of all this, so please excuse my preaching to the choir, but I would feel I was remiss as a shooter to just let that pass. Regards. Michaelson

Sorry. I should have been more detailed. I hope know one tries to over due anything and hurts themselves!
Tarli

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup:

Name:    
E-Mail:  
Subject: 
Comments:

: : : 
: : : :      I recently found a list of guns for sale and among them was a colt new service.  This got my attention and as the seller wants to sell them all I called a friend that I believed might be interested in the package in hopes that I could buy the colt from him.  (His daughter just got her fac and is looking for a few guns to begin with).  He told me to meet him at the range and bring the list along with "some iron an brass".  We shot for a while and then he told me he had something that would interest me, he pulled out...  A colt new service in .455  that same as the one that is for sale.  He'd brought a few rounds for it (it's hard to find) and allowed me to put a few rounds down range.  I found it shot high and right but a little kentucky windage fixed things quick (it has fixed sights).  He warned me that the hole for the primer is "ballooned" in the .455 brass as opposed to my .357 and won't take high pressure loads but he had a way around that.  You can take a .45 auto rim and machine the rim down to the same width as that of the .455 and then you have a brass of the same dimensions with a thicker more solid back.  I thought that this might be usefull for those of you that shoot .455 (the webley).  I also thought that it brings up an issue in the world of debate on his guns.  I live in Canada where handguns aren't overly common and I found two colt new services in .455 with in two days.  Could it be that Indy's in TOD was chambered in .455 and therefore the webley would make a bit more sence???  I'm not stating this only as something that the experts in the forum might consider.  Cheers all.

: : : : Tarli

: : : Good afternoon, Tarli! The fact is that the New Service you have would have been a British issue version, which in the Lend Lease Act we (USA) had during WWII with England. We sent these weapons to Britain, but in the .455 caliber which was still a British military round, though quickly replaced by more standard .38 S&W rounds in 200 grain bullet sizing. The big Colt was used by the home guard and not very many ended up in the hands of the soldiers on the front. Bear in mind that Indy was an American in 1930. The .455 was very UNcommon to find in the US, and the fact that he SUPPOSEDLY was carrying a Colt .45 ACP (script called for the .45, better eyes than mind spot a .9 mm Browning in hand in the movie. A "stunt" double gun?) would dictate that he would be more likely to be carrying .45 ACP rounds on his person, readily available in the US at this time, though still considered a military round, commercially available to the US citizen by the 1930's. Why would he then carry two different versions of cartridges that could create EXTREME problems in not only a combat situation, but be extra weight to have to deal with in travel? The Webley was only placed in Indy's hand because it was a pet revolver of the writer who wrote the LC script, and several novels there after. We need to look at what was actually available and in stock in the US at the time that Indiana Jones is set. We did not have the world product market that is so common today. We also were pretty closed door (I'm speaking as a US citizen here) toward outside market goods prior to WWII, and finding .455 British loadings on a hardware store or gun shop would have been difficult or flat impossible in the time period mentioned. But as you state above, the world of debate goes one and on. Ain't it great!!?? Appreciate your story. If you get a chance to wheel and deal on the Colt, grab it. They're getting hard to find in any caliber on the gun market. Regards. Michaelson

: : One quick follow up, his description of creating brass is true, but don't go with that as being the best way regarding the "high pressure" problem. The metalurgy of the revolver is the factor here, not the brass of the ammunition. High pressure rounds should NEVER, repeat, NEVER be fired in these old guns as the steel is not the same grade as your .357. Stick with the lower pressure loadings and enjoy the revolver. If you try anything higher pressured, then expect best case scenario a blown up cylinder. Worse case, loss of gun, fingers, and maybe eyesight. The .455 was a pretty anemic loading in civilian purchases. His suggestion on the brass does indeed give you a better source of reloading material, ONLY. I'm sure you're aware of all this, so please excuse my preaching to the choir, but I would feel I was remiss as a shooter to just let that pass. Regards. Michaelson

: 
:    Sorry.  I should have been more detailed.  I hope know one tries to over due anything and hurts themselves!
: Tarli

Optional:

Link URL:   
Link Title: 
Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Indyfan Forum ] [ FAQ ]