Re: Help!! Indy shoulder bag info needed!

Posted by Max Schulte from proxy4.cityweb.de on May 29, 1998 at 07:31:03:

In Reply to: Re: Help!! Indy shoulder bag info needed! posted by Laurie Jensen on May 28, 1998 at 16:27:14:

: : : :
: : : : : Hi, there, I really could use some of the boards input regarding the Indy shoulder bag.

: : : : : I have a line on a possible Indy bag in unissued shape from a collector here in the U.S. The problem is that I'm unsure that the bag in question is an authentic Mark VII. The bag was described as a WW2 British gas mask bag, green canvas, dated 1945. Sounds good, I know, but when I emailed back for the written contents of the bag it said this: Light 11 J.H.& Co (W) LTD 3/1945. All of the other bags I've heard of have had at least the VII marked in the bag. Is this really a Mark VII or were there other gas mask bags produced by the British at this time? Does anyone else have the bag with similiar markings, or are all your bags labelled Mark VII? Any help would sure be appreciated.

: : : : Hi Laurie, What you might want to do is try e-mailing a photo of the
: : : : bag to the collector so they can confirm that it is the bag you want. Max Schulte posted two really good pictures of the bag a couple weeks ago on the forum. It does sound like it could be the Mark VII bag.. I have two of the bags, one is labeled
: : : : "J.M & Co.(W) LTD 1942 MARK VII" along with a serial number.
: : : : The second is a later issue with only the serial number printed on the inside flap. The newer one has some minor differences in the strap, strap attachments, snaps and drainage holes. Its also a little darker green but other than that the bag is the same design.
: : : :
: : : : Good luck and hope this helps.

: : : : Dan

: : : Thanks for answering Dan. I hope that I don't sound stupid, but how do you e-mail a photo from the web to another person? Do you need a scanner (we don't have one yet)? It sounds like a Mark VII and the price is great, but I want to be sure before I spend any money for it. Could you give me an idea on how to send a picture?

: : : Once again, thanks for any help.

: : Hi Laurie,

: : Like Dan already said, you should definitely email thr photos to this
: : guy. You'll have to download the pictures first and send them via
: : attachment. If you need some help how to do this, please tell me which
: : browser you use (Netscape, Internet Explorer).
: : You can find the pictures and some other information about the bag
: : here: "http://www.concentric.net/~pentagon/jones/bag.htm"
: : I made this website together with Mike Davis, another regular visitor
: : of this forum. You'll also find some information regarding the leather
: : strap which was added to the bag (you probably know that the original
: : pouch comes with a fat cotton strap).

: : You could also send the above address to the guy who sells the bag so that
: : he can see what exactly you want. I'm a little bit conceerned as the
: : Indy bag, the original MKVII, was only produced between 1940-43. I'm
: : not quite sure if the bag you described is the actual MkVII.

: : Another thing: It could also be that the bag is a Canadian
: : 'reproduction'. Bags based on the MKVII gas mask bag were also made for
: : the Canadian Armed Forces during WWII. However, the color of the
: : Canadian bags is a little more yellowish (Some kind of mustard yellow).
: : Maybe the guy who offers the bag thought it was a British bag as the
: : two versions are really very similar.

: : Anyway, you should definitely contact him again. Maybe he can measure
: : the size of the bag so we can see compare them to an Indy bag. By the
: : way, my bag is labeled "VII, W&G Ltd., S 1943".

: : If you have some further question - just post a message to the forum
: : or email me...

: : Regards,
: : -Max

: Many thanks to both you guys for the information. I e-mailed the dealer with the URL's for the bag pictures on Max's site. If I receive a positive report from the dealer I'm probably going to buy the bag anyway, because the price is really very cheap, even with the shipping costs. Based on the description I was given, I don't believe that this is a Canadian bag, since it is clearly described as green and not yellow or khaki. The date, on the other hand is a real puzzle. I know that you only list the Indy bags as originating between 1940-43, but on the long message thread relating to your Indy forum and the creation of the bag FAQ Michaelson describes his two bags as coming from well after this time frame (one from 1948 and the other from the 1950's). Why this discrepancy? Were the bags manufactured for many years after the war, but only the first issue of Mk VII are considered the "real" Indy bags (since these were the props used in the films)? Or are the bags slightly different and therefore are not considered accurate for the purists? Does anyone know the answer, because now I'm really curious about the time frame for the Mk VII issue.

: BTW, Max, I love the FAQ segments for the bag and jacket. Really great work, much appreciated by all the fans of the board, I'm sure. Do you have any other FAQ completed? If you do, what are the URL's?

: Once again, thanks a lot.

Laurie, like with many other military weapons and equipment there
were indeed postwar productions of the shoulder bag. They are basically
the same as the bags used in WWII. However, if you take a closer look
at it you'll notice some changes. Michaelson already mentioned that
the snaps are different and grommets are installed inside. In addition
to that the bags used in the movies WERE the "1942" models. There was
a post in the Bag FAQ string describing a bag that was sold at an
auction in London. This bag was used in ToD and was labeled '1942'.
So the post-war bags are less authentic but are quite nice though and
are, as I already said, very close to the "original". If the bag you
want to buy is really that cheap I'd buy it anyway. I once stumbled
across one of these bags in a Military Surplus Store in London but it
was even more expensive than the one at "Sentimental Journey".

Here is my advise: If you do not care much about the authenticity and
just want to have a bag that is very close to the Indy bag - go and
buy it, you won't get a better chance.

Regarding the FAQs: Just visit the "Indy's Diggs" page (see link).
You'll find a FAQ about the Jacket, guns and shoulder bag there. I've
also already written a Whip FAQ but it isn't up yet and Mike is
currently working on a Fedora page. If you are interested in the Whip
FAQ - I can also email it to you.

Regards,
-Max

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: : : : : 
: : : : : : Hi, there, I really could use some of the boards input regarding the Indy shoulder bag.

: : : : : : I have a line on a possible Indy bag in unissued shape from a collector here in the U.S.  The problem is that I'm unsure that the bag in question is an authentic Mark VII.  The bag was described as a WW2 British gas mask bag, green canvas, dated 1945.  Sounds good, I know, but when I emailed back for the written contents of the bag it said this:  Light 11 J.H.& Co (W) LTD 3/1945.  All of the other bags I've heard of have had at least the VII marked in the bag.  Is this really a Mark VII or were there other gas mask bags produced by the British at this time?  Does anyone else have the bag with similiar markings, or are all your bags labelled Mark VII?  Any help would sure be appreciated.

: : : : : Hi Laurie, What you might want to do is try e-mailing a photo of the 
: : : : : bag to the collector so they can confirm that it is the bag you want.  Max Schulte posted two really good pictures of the bag a couple weeks ago on the forum. It does sound like it could be the Mark VII bag..  I have two of the bags, one is labeled 
: : : : :  "J.M & Co.(W) LTD 1942 MARK VII" along with a serial number. 
: : : : : The second is a later issue with only the serial number printed on the inside flap. The newer one has some minor differences in the strap, strap attachments, snaps and drainage holes. Its also a little darker green but other than that the bag is the same design. 
: : : : :  
: : : : : Good luck and hope this helps.

: : : : : Dan

: : : : Thanks for answering Dan.  I hope that I don't sound stupid, but how do you e-mail a photo from the web to another person?  Do you need a scanner (we don't have one yet)?  It sounds like a Mark VII and the price is great, but I want to be sure before I spend any money for it.  Could you give me an idea on how to send a picture?

: : : : Once again, thanks for any help.

: : : Hi Laurie,

: : : Like Dan already said, you should definitely email thr photos to this 
: : : guy. You'll have to download the pictures first and send them via 
: : : attachment. If you need some help how to do this, please tell me which
: : : browser you use (Netscape, Internet Explorer).
: : : You can find the pictures and some other information about the bag 
: : : here: "http://www.concentric.net/~pentagon/jones/bag.htm"
: : : I made this website together with Mike Davis, another regular visitor
: : : of this forum. You'll also find some information regarding the leather
: : : strap which was added to the bag (you probably know that the original 
: : : pouch comes with a fat cotton strap).

: : : You could also send the above address to the guy who sells the bag so that
: : : he can see what exactly you want. I'm a little bit conceerned as the 
: : : Indy bag, the original MKVII, was only produced between 1940-43. I'm 
: : : not quite sure if the bag you described is the actual MkVII.

: : : Another thing: It could also be that the bag is a Canadian 
: : : 'reproduction'. Bags based on the MKVII gas mask bag were also made for
: : : the Canadian Armed Forces during WWII. However, the color of the 
: : : Canadian bags is a little more yellowish (Some kind of mustard yellow).
: : : Maybe the guy who offers the bag thought it was a British bag as the 
: : : two versions are really very similar.

: : : Anyway, you should definitely contact him again. Maybe he can measure
: : : the size of the bag so we can see compare them to an Indy bag. By the 
: : : way, my bag is labeled "VII, W&G Ltd., S 1943".

: : : If you have some further question - just post a message to the forum
: : : or email me...

: : : Regards,
: : : -Max

: : Many thanks to both you guys for the information.  I e-mailed the dealer with the URL's for the bag pictures on Max's site.   If I receive a positive report from the dealer I'm probably going to buy the bag anyway, because the price is really very cheap, even with the shipping costs.  Based on the description I was given, I don't believe that this is a Canadian bag, since it is clearly described as green and not yellow or khaki.  The date, on the other hand is a real puzzle.  I know that you only list the Indy bags as originating between 1940-43, but on the long message thread relating to your Indy forum and the creation of the bag FAQ Michaelson describes his two bags as coming from well after this time frame (one from 1948 and the other from the 1950's).  Why this discrepancy?  Were the bags manufactured for many years after the war, but only the first issue of Mk VII are considered the "real" Indy bags (since these were the props used in the films)?  Or are the bags slightly different and therefore are not considered accurate for the purists?  Does anyone know the answer, because now I'm really curious about the time frame for the Mk VII issue.

: : BTW, Max, I love the FAQ segments for the bag and jacket.  Really great work, much appreciated by all the fans of the board, I'm sure.  Do you have any other FAQ completed?  If you do, what are the URL's?

: : Once again, thanks a lot.

: 
: Laurie, like with many other military weapons and equipment there 
: were indeed postwar productions of the shoulder bag. They are basically
: the same as the bags used in WWII. However, if you take a closer look
: at it you'll notice some changes. Michaelson already mentioned that
: the snaps are different and grommets are installed inside. In addition
: to that the bags used in the movies WERE the "1942" models. There was
: a post in the Bag FAQ string describing a bag that was sold at an 
: auction in London. This bag was used in ToD and was labeled '1942'.
: So the post-war bags are less authentic but are quite nice though and 
: are, as I already said, very close to the "original". If the bag you 
: want to buy is really that cheap I'd buy it anyway. I once stumbled 
: across one of these bags in a Military Surplus Store in London but it 
: was even more expensive than the one at "Sentimental Journey".

: Here is my advise: If you do not care much about the authenticity and
: just want to have a bag that is very close to the Indy bag - go and 
: buy it, you won't get a better chance.

: Regarding the FAQs: Just visit the "Indy's Diggs" page (see link). 
: You'll find a FAQ about the Jacket, guns and shoulder bag there. I've 
: also already written a Whip FAQ but it isn't up yet and Mike is 
: currently working on a Fedora page. If you are interested in the Whip 
: FAQ - I can also email it to you.

: Regards,
: -Max

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