Re: For Rob T and Steve concerning the 30's

Posted by Steve from ppp-138.COL.cableone.net on November 29, 1999 at 11:20:58:

In Reply to: For Rob T and Steve concerning the 30's posted by Michaelson on November 29, 1999 at 10:35:41:

: : Hi. I do agree that rose colored glasses are donned sometimes when we look backward in time. I'm afraid though that your reciting of social evils of the 30's doesn't change my mind concerning the higher character of those people that lived in those times. To use racial discrimination, our treatment of Japanese Americans, and the isolationism that was probaly inherit at that time, says nothing of the character of "most" folks that occupied this time period. When you get down to it, most of the cases you presented were not carried out by the majority of Americans, but by a minority. One could look back from say the year 2099 A.D. on our times, and wrongfully conclude that we had very poor character because our children were killing one another in our schools. Every era has it's own evils, afterall, isn't this the history of mankind? That we relocated the Japanese Americans to camps after the Pearl Harbor attack can't be considered evil in my unpolitically correct view of history. We absolutley didn't know who was loyal to their homeland, and who wasn't. What would you have done? Remember, we didn't know who was gonna win that war. Our whole way of life was at risk. Would you have left them in place, exposed to the mob behavior that accompanies a war of this magnitude? You know what Hitler would have done, he would have simply executed all of them. That we didn't shows me the difference between us and the Nazis. Maybe we had a little more character. When I stated that the people of the 30's had more character than the people of today, my basis was historical, but it was also from personal experience. I personally knew my great grandfather, all of my grandparents, and of course my mom and dad. I lived closely with them as we were farmers and spent almost every hour together. I am here to tell you that when those generations left us, we lost a great deal. Not only outstanding character, but also something else exceedingly lacking today. Responsibility. I never heard a single one contribute their ill fortunes to anyone other than themselves. In 1999 we have acquired a strange habit of blaming everyone and everything for the bad things we do. (I am not speaking of you personally) Given the evils you brought to light about the 30's I am unchanged in my wishes to live in that era. To me it would be worth it, to live in a time when the "me" generation was unthinkable. regards, Steve

: I honestly believe it falls somewhere between the two discussions here as to the reality of the 1930's. As a nation we accepted a lot of now recognized attrocities that had been practice for generations, and yet never actually recognized them as being the terrible things they were at the time. Yes, many times they were done in the belief of national security, and rightly so, but many times those practices were done with such enthusiasm that it negated the real reasons that they were being put in place. At the same time, we have indeed lost the so called innocence of those days, as we now have a built in fear of our fellow man. Rob T states that in the country we left the doors unlocked, but the city dwellers locked theirs. I'm not so sure of that, nor has that been confirmed by any conversations or readings of articles regarding this era. Folks did indeed have a better grasp of right and wrong, and manners were just that, a common practice and not something that was found quaint and uncommon as it is today. Everyone knew everyone else, whether it was country or city (in large cities, at least everyone in their particular neighborhood), but then we were much more polarized then than now, as most of these folks were first generation immigrants who stayed close to their own kind. We are a more dispersed society now, and personally I can remember about half the time the names of my neighbors on either side of me, but can not tell you for a fact ANY names of the folks who live only two doors down, and I've lived in the same home and neighborhood for 5 years. Should I be ashamed of this? Probably so, but in the high speed lane of life we've all built around us, who has time to socialize with the people who live around us now? Life was slower, simply because the only communications we had were the newspaper, the few who had access to a radio, movie newsreels, and word of mouth. We could write a thesis on what is available today. We almost know what has happened before it has taken place. Folks were dying of diseases that we would NEVER EVEN CONSIDER being more than a common ailment today, simply because penicillin was not invented until the outbreak of WWII, and so a common cold usually went to pneumonia and the person died. I guess that the grey areas were just a varied and shaded as they are today, maybe more so....I just wish for a slower time, back before a man/womans work or career was antiquated within just a couple years by the rapid changes of our current life styles. So in my opinion, if we could put both your posting in a blender and blend it all together, you'd have a clearer picture of the real 30's. Regards. Michaelson

I certainly agree with Michaelson. The truth of two adverse points of view often lies somewhere in between. Regardless of that fact, I too would like to live in simpler times. This is one of the attractions I feel for the Indy movies. No doubt about, I truly am an anachronism. I used to know every one of my neighbors, once upon a time, but there are so many people moving in and out of my community, hailing from different parts of the states, that it is impossible now. I also am a proud gun owner, mostly hunting rifles, but I still have to lock up at night. I really do love alot of the new technology, including modern medical treatment, but honestly, I would trade all of this in a second. I think it must be obvious what is important to me personally. Our society, for white people anyway, was much more free,the social engineers were not so powerful, and basically most people had a good sense of right and wrong. Good manners were expected and exercised much more often. If history does indeed repeat itself, I do hope I'm around for it! regards Steve

Follow Ups:

Re: Concerning the 30's Major Paul 17:08:37 11/29/99 (1)
- Re: Concerning the 30's Anejo Joe 12:58:36 11/30/99 (0)

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: : :    Hi. I do agree that rose colored glasses are donned sometimes when we look backward in time. I'm afraid though that your reciting of social evils of the 30's doesn't change my mind concerning the higher character of those people that lived in those times. To use racial discrimination, our treatment of Japanese Americans, and the isolationism that was probaly inherit at that time, says nothing of the character of "most" folks that occupied this time period. When you get down to it, most of the cases you presented were not carried out by the majority of Americans, but by a minority. One could look back from say the year 2099 A.D. on our times, and wrongfully conclude that we had very poor character because our children were killing one another in our schools. Every era has it's own evils, afterall, isn't this the history of mankind? That we relocated the Japanese Americans to camps after the Pearl Harbor attack can't be considered evil in my unpolitically correct view of history. We absolutley didn't know who was loyal to their homeland, and who wasn't. What would you have done? Remember, we didn't know who was gonna win that war. Our whole way of life was at risk. Would you have left them in place, exposed to the mob behavior that accompanies a war of this magnitude? You know what Hitler would have done, he would have simply executed all of them. That we didn't shows me the difference between us and the Nazis. Maybe we had a little more character. When I stated that the people of the 30's had more character than the people of today, my basis was historical, but it was also from personal experience. I personally knew my great grandfather, all of my grandparents, and of course my mom and dad. I lived closely with them as we were farmers and spent almost every hour together. I am here to tell you that when those generations left us, we lost a great deal. Not only outstanding character, but also something else exceedingly lacking today. Responsibility. I never heard a single one contribute their ill fortunes to anyone other than themselves. In 1999 we have acquired a strange habit of blaming everyone and everything for the bad things we do. (I am not speaking of you personally) Given the evils you brought to light about the 30's I am unchanged in my wishes to live in that era. To me it would be worth it, to live in a time when the "me" generation was unthinkable.          regards, Steve

: : I honestly believe it falls somewhere between the two discussions here as to the reality of the 1930's. As a nation we accepted a lot of now recognized attrocities that had been practice for generations, and yet never actually recognized them as being the terrible things they were at the time. Yes, many times they were done in the belief of national security, and rightly so, but many times those practices were done with such enthusiasm that it negated the real reasons that they were being put in place. At the same time, we have indeed lost the so called innocence of those days, as we now have a built in fear of our fellow man. Rob T states that in the country we left the doors unlocked, but the city dwellers locked theirs. I'm not so sure of that, nor has that been confirmed by any conversations or readings of articles regarding this era. Folks did indeed have a better grasp of right and wrong, and manners were just that, a common practice and not something that was found quaint and uncommon as it is today. Everyone knew everyone else, whether it was country or city (in large cities, at least everyone in their particular neighborhood), but then we were much more polarized then than now, as most of these folks were first generation immigrants who stayed close to their own kind. We are a more dispersed society now, and personally I can remember about half the time the names of my neighbors on either side of me, but can not tell you for a fact ANY names of the folks who live only two doors down, and I've lived in the same home and neighborhood for 5 years. Should I be ashamed of this? Probably so, but in the high speed lane of life we've all built around us, who has time to socialize with the people who live around us now? Life was slower, simply because the only communications we had were the newspaper, the few who had access to a radio, movie newsreels, and word of mouth. We could write a thesis on what is available today. We almost know what has happened before it has taken place. Folks were dying of diseases that we would NEVER EVEN CONSIDER being more than a common ailment today, simply because penicillin was not invented until the outbreak of WWII, and so a common cold usually went to pneumonia and the person died. I guess that the grey areas were just a varied and shaded as they are today, maybe more so....I just wish for a slower time, back before a man/womans work or career was antiquated within just a couple years by the rapid changes of our current life styles. So in my opinion, if we could put both your posting in a blender and blend it all together, you'd have a clearer picture of the real 30's. Regards. Michaelson

: 
:      I certainly agree with Michaelson. The truth of two adverse points of view often lies somewhere in between. Regardless of that fact, I too would like to live in simpler times. This is one of the attractions I feel for the Indy movies. No doubt about, I truly am an anachronism. I used to know every one of my neighbors, once upon a time, but there are so many people moving in and out of my community, hailing from different parts of the states, that it is impossible now. I also am a proud gun owner, mostly hunting rifles, but I still have to lock up at night. I really do love alot of the new technology, including modern medical treatment, but honestly, I would trade all of this in a second. I think it must be obvious what is important to me personally. Our society, for white people anyway, was much more free,the social engineers were not so powerful, and basically most people had a good sense of right and wrong. Good manners were expected and exercised much more often. If history does indeed repeat itself, I do hope I'm around for it!     regards Steve

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