Re: And you seem to be a mean-spirited man who goes out of his way to bother others.

Posted by Indiana Joe from dialup4.multilinkws.com on December 13, 1999 at 09:05:07:

In Reply to: You "Temple" apologists are a bunch of crybabies. posted by ROB T. on December 12, 1999 at 23:08:34:

First, on the merits of “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom”: so much has been said about the film that I’d have thought little could now be added, but it seems I was wrong. The film certainly doesn’t achieve the glorious heights of “Raiders of the Lost Ark”, I concur, but damning something for not quite meeting a rarely-attained classic status is hardly fair. How is it on its own? Well... it seems to depend upon whom you ask. It certainly drew some negative reviews, to be sure, but (contrary to your assertion that it’s never gotten praise anywhere outside the ranks of Indy devotees like those assembled here) it’s gotten some overwhelmingly positive ones as well. It’s garnered high praise from Roger Ebert, The New Yorker’s Pauline Kael (who gave it a more favorable review than either of the others - it was the only one she gave a positive notice, in fact), and many others. It’s certainly broader and cartoonier than its predecessor, but that doesn’t prevent it from offering any entertainment value. No, I don’t expect to change your mind - all I’m trying to do by telling you all of this is that it is that while it is indeed generally acknowledged as inferior to “Raiders” (and “Last Crusade”, for that matter), it’s a far cry from being a universally acknowledged turkey like, say, the second “Highlander” film or the fifth “Star Trek” film. There isn’t a clear consensus on its merits, beyond that it isn’t quite up to “Raiders”. There are quite a few people who hate it, and quite a few - not all die-hard Indy fans, mind you - who feel it’s a perfectly decent film.

Does “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom” really suck? Well, perhaps it does - not in my opinion, but I’m hardly the final authority on such things. And yes, you’re certainly free to voice your own opinion. The problem is that you continue to air an opinion - one you know to be controversial or unpopular in the venue - LOOOOOOONNNNG after everyone has been made aware of it, seemingly for no other purpose than to annoy those who hold contrary opinions or to belittle them for having them. You come to this forum a great deal, but as I understand it, the only Indiana Jones adventure you really care for at all is “Raiders of the Lost Ark” - is that correct? I get the impression that you dislike or outright hate not only both of the other theatrical films, but also the entire Young Indy series; if that’s the case, why do you hang around here? “Raiders of the Lost Ark” is definitely the finest moment of the Indy canon, I agree, but it still comprises a fairly small percentage of the total screen time of Indy’s escapades at this point; I’d say disliking more than 90% of something probably disqualifies you from being considered a fan. I mean that purely as an observation; I certainly don’t think disliking Indy makes someone a bad person. I just don’t understand why you’d bother to hang out on a forum devoted to something that you mostly hate. If it’s because you do want to discuss “Raiders”, the one Indy film you like, why not find a forum devoted soley to it - and if you can’t find one, why not create one? Or try to find a forum for not just “Raiders” fans, but fans of lots of movies that were undeniably great, but that had sequels many could do without (“Poltergeist”, “Planet of the Apes”, “Jaws”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Psycho”, etc.). Come around if you like, and if someone makes an observation on the merits of some non-Raiders Indy material that you think particularly vacuous, inane or untenable, go ahead and point out the flaws in the argument, but please don’t hold that we’re all blindly devoted ninnies unable to exercise any critical thinking skills simply because we happen to enjoy the majority of the adventures discussed here, especially since this is a forum specifically designated as one for people who have this interest.

- IJ

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: First, on the merits of “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom”: so much has been said about the film that I’d have thought little could now be added, but it seems I was wrong. The film certainly doesn’t achieve the glorious heights of “Raiders of the Lost Ark”, I concur, but damning something for not quite meeting a rarely-attained classic status is hardly fair. How is it on its own? Well... it seems to depend upon whom you ask. It certainly drew some negative reviews, to be sure, but (contrary to your assertion that it’s never gotten praise anywhere outside the ranks of Indy devotees like those assembled here) it’s gotten some overwhelmingly positive ones as well. It’s garnered high praise from Roger Ebert, The New Yorker’s Pauline Kael (who gave it a more favorable review than either of the others - it was the only one she gave a positive notice, in fact), and many others. It’s certainly broader and cartoonier than its predecessor, but that doesn’t prevent it from offering any entertainment value. No, I don’t expect to change your mind - all I’m trying to do by telling you all of this is that it is that while it is indeed generally acknowledged as inferior to “Raiders” (and “Last Crusade”, for that matter), it’s a far cry from being a universally acknowledged turkey like, say, the second “Highlander” film or the fifth “Star Trek” film. There isn’t a clear consensus on its merits, beyond that it isn’t quite up to “Raiders”. There are quite a few people who hate it, and quite a few - not all die-hard Indy fans, mind you - who feel it’s a perfectly decent film.

: Does “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom” really suck? Well, perhaps it does - not in my opinion, but I’m hardly the final authority on such things. And yes, you’re certainly free to voice your own opinion. The problem is that you continue to air an opinion - one you know to be controversial or unpopular in the venue - LOOOOOOONNNNG after everyone has been made aware of it, seemingly for no other purpose than to annoy those who hold contrary opinions or to belittle them for having them. You come to this forum a great deal, but as I understand it, the only Indiana Jones adventure you really care for at all is “Raiders of the Lost Ark” - is that correct? I get the impression that you dislike or outright hate not only both of the other theatrical films, but also the entire Young Indy series; if that’s the case, why do you hang around here? “Raiders of the Lost Ark” is definitely the finest moment of the Indy canon, I agree, but it still comprises a fairly small percentage of the total screen time of Indy’s escapades at this point; I’d say disliking more than 90% of something probably disqualifies you from being considered a fan. I mean that purely as an observation; I certainly don’t think disliking Indy makes someone a bad person. I just don’t understand why you’d bother to hang out on a forum devoted to something that you mostly hate. If it’s because you do want to discuss “Raiders”, the one Indy film you like, why not find a forum devoted soley to it - and if you can’t find one, why not create one? Or try to find a forum for not just “Raiders” fans, but fans of lots of movies that were undeniably great, but that had sequels many could do without (“Poltergeist”, “Planet of the Apes”, “Jaws”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Psycho”, etc.). Come around if you like, and if someone makes an observation on the merits of some non-Raiders Indy material that you think particularly vacuous, inane or untenable, go ahead and point out the flaws in the argument, but please don’t hold that we’re all blindly devoted ninnies unable to exercise any critical thinking skills simply because we happen to enjoy the majority of the adventures discussed here, especially since this is a forum specifically designated as one for people who have this interest.

: - IJ

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