This again? Oh well...here's my take on it...

Posted by GCR from spider-tm073.proxy.aol.com on December 31, 1999 at 14:58:06:

In Reply to: Let's Kill this SPF and RP thing shall we? We covered this weeks ago! (Reading on is optional for those of oyu who have read my posts B4 - Havlock and Grail Knight, front and center!)) posted by Ultraman Tiga on December 31, 1999 at 02:19:51:

I have been engaged in debates about this before...but after just watching all twelve of the currently available Young Indy videos (in a row, in order) I must say I have formed a bit of a new opinion.
Let me start off by saying this: I like them both, Flannery and Phoenix were both good, in different ways. I Personally liked Phoenix just a bit better. Why? Because he seems a bit more tenacious than Flannery and has a really good impersonation of Ford down. That is the one thing I think Flannery fails at. Not that the role of Young Indy should be nothing more than a Ford impersonation (and Phoenix's wasn't), just that one should try to keep with the character. In this case, Harrison Ford IS Indiana Jones. He has become so close with the character that Ford's mannerisms are now also Indy's mannerisms, even Ford's scar has it's place in Indy lore. By imitating Ford, one can begin the first step toward acting like Jones. Phoenix managed to do this, Flannery did not. Other than not ACTING like Indy or Ford, he was good, although at times just a bit hard to accept. For one, his voice. At the ages of 16-17-18 etc, I personally had quite a deep voice, more of a man's voice than a boys. Flannery has a very high voice, unlike Ford who has a rich deep voice. I find it hard to believe that young Indy would have a voice like that. Second, where is his facial hair? Indy is NOTED for his scruff, once again, at Young Indy's age, I could grow quite a decent scruff, but Flannery cannot, or at least, DID NOT, (although this was perhaps not his fault, after all, you can catch a glimpse of stubble here and ther, especially in OGANGA). As for his build...I'd like to back SPF up on this one. Just watch Treasure of the Peacocks Eye. The scene where Indy and Remmy have landed on a "deserted" island and are cleaning themselves in a water fall, SPF's upper body is decent enough to convince me he could grow enough to be Ford's size in Raiders.
Also, as for the "too naive" thing, regular (Ford's) Indy was naive at times too, for instance: "Throw me the idol, I throw you the whip..." or how about the whole thing with Elsa. So it is believable to think that young Indy was naive as well, although on a higher scale, due to his youth and lack of experiences in the real world. Another complaint I have about SPF however, is that he doesn't seem any tougher, doesn't seem hardened at all, by his experiences in the war. For awhile he seems affected a bit, but by the time of Hollywood Follies, he's still a young, naive, goof. How could someone who has been through that hell convincingly be intimidated by Von Strohiem(sp?)? Sure, he's all mean and nasty, but Indy went face to face with Vlad the Impailer!!! Perhaps it's stupid to blame SPF for that, after all, he didn't write the show. As for SPF making Harrison Ford (THE Harrison Ford) look like a cardboard standee? (Mr. Tiga's thoughts) Yeah right..Dream On. Ford's other work is irrelevant, this is a discussion on Indy, hell, it's a discussion on Young Indy, Ford should not even have been mentioned!!! And how can you be so critical of the ORIGINAL Indiana Jones? He defined the role in three films more than SPF did in the entire series! I mean...get real! Another scene, in Hollywood Follies where Indy runs from a snake, is the only time I can remember the episodes having that trait of Indy's played upon. That is a defining trait of Indiana Jones! And it was only used once? More often than not it is not SPF's fault, more the writers or directors. Soemtimes I think none of them even saw an Indiana Jones movie before. As for some of the other Indy traits SPF has or doesn't have, I think the Scoundrel/Sleazy drinker quality of Indy is apparent in some cases (Indy washes his woes down at a bar in tales of innocence, and does his share of womanizing, as well as lying outright to the woman he loves in Masks of Evil, yet he still sleeps with her. Not exactly hero traits, but still, sort of paves the way for his "encounter" with Marion.)As for Lucas's choice of Flannery over Phoenix as Young Indy, remember, Phoenix was a druggie by then, and also was more of a Movie man. Lucas probably wanted someone fresh, and SPF fit the bill. The only way I will ever be able to sit back and enjoy a young Indy movie, without questioning the believability of it's star, is if they mad Ford 35 years younger and had him play the part. Otherwise, there will always be debates, comparisons, etc. Overall I like YIJC,I like SPF, and I like Phoenix.
The episodes were good(some more than others) and I enjoyed watching them, I hope everyone else does too, and I hope this topic never comes up again! Just Kidding...
-GCR

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: I have been engaged in debates about this before...but after just watching all twelve of the currently available Young Indy videos (in a row, in order) I must say I have formed a bit of a new opinion. 
: Let me start off by saying this: I like them both, Flannery and Phoenix were both good, in different ways. I Personally liked Phoenix just a bit better. Why? Because he seems a bit more tenacious than Flannery and has a really good impersonation of Ford down. That is the one thing I think Flannery fails at. Not that the role of Young Indy should be nothing more than a Ford impersonation (and Phoenix's wasn't), just that one should try to keep with the character. In this case, Harrison Ford IS Indiana Jones. He has become so close with the character that Ford's mannerisms are now also Indy's mannerisms, even Ford's scar has it's place in Indy lore. By imitating Ford, one can begin the first step toward acting like Jones. Phoenix managed to do this, Flannery did not. Other than not ACTING like Indy or Ford, he was good, although at times just a bit hard to accept. For one, his voice. At the ages of 16-17-18 etc, I personally had quite a deep voice, more of a man's voice than a boys. Flannery has a very high voice, unlike Ford who has a rich deep voice. I find it hard to believe that young Indy would have a voice like that. Second, where is his facial hair? Indy is NOTED for his scruff, once again, at Young Indy's age, I could grow quite a decent scruff, but Flannery cannot, or at least, DID NOT, (although this was perhaps not his fault, after all, you can catch a glimpse of stubble here and ther, especially in OGANGA). As for his build...I'd like to back SPF up on this one. Just watch Treasure of the Peacocks Eye. The scene where Indy and Remmy have landed on a "deserted" island and are cleaning themselves in a water fall, SPF's upper body is decent enough to convince me he could grow enough to be Ford's size in Raiders.
: Also, as for the "too naive" thing, regular (Ford's) Indy was naive at times too, for instance: "Throw me the idol, I throw you the whip..." or how about the whole thing with Elsa. So it is believable to think that young Indy was naive as well, although on a higher scale, due to his youth and lack of experiences in the real world. Another complaint I have about SPF however, is that he doesn't seem any tougher, doesn't seem hardened at all, by his experiences in the war. For awhile he seems affected a bit, but by the time of Hollywood Follies, he's still a young, naive, goof. How could someone who has been through that hell convincingly be intimidated by Von Strohiem(sp?)? Sure, he's all mean and nasty, but Indy went face to face with Vlad the Impailer!!! Perhaps it's stupid to blame SPF for that, after all, he didn't write the show. As for SPF making Harrison Ford (THE Harrison Ford) look like a cardboard standee? (Mr. Tiga's thoughts) Yeah right..Dream On. Ford's other work is irrelevant, this is a discussion on Indy, hell, it's a discussion on Young Indy, Ford should not even have been mentioned!!! And how can you be so critical of the ORIGINAL Indiana Jones? He defined the role in three films more than SPF did in the entire series! I mean...get real! Another scene, in Hollywood Follies where Indy runs from a snake, is the only time I can remember the episodes having that trait of Indy's played upon. That is a defining trait of Indiana Jones! And it was only used once? More often than not it is not SPF's fault, more the writers or directors. Soemtimes I think none of them even saw an Indiana Jones movie before. As for some of the other Indy traits SPF has or doesn't have, I think the Scoundrel/Sleazy drinker quality of Indy is apparent in some cases (Indy washes his woes down at a bar in tales of innocence, and does his share of womanizing, as well as lying outright to the woman he loves in Masks of Evil, yet he still sleeps with her. Not exactly hero traits, but still, sort of paves the way for his "encounter" with Marion.)As for Lucas's choice of Flannery over Phoenix as Young Indy, remember, Phoenix was a druggie by then, and also was more of a Movie man. Lucas probably wanted someone fresh, and SPF fit the bill. The only way I will ever be able to sit back and enjoy a young Indy movie, without questioning the believability of it's star, is if they mad Ford 35 years younger and had him play the part. Otherwise, there will always be debates, comparisons, etc. Overall I like YIJC,I like SPF, and I like Phoenix. 
: The episodes were good(some more than others) and I enjoyed watching them, I hope everyone else does too, and I hope this topic never comes up again! Just Kidding...
: -GCR

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