Re: Shirt & Trousers Materials and Colors

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Posted by Greg from on July 15, 1998 at 07:21:55:

In Reply to: Re: Shirt & Trousers Materials and Colors posted by Andrea on July 15, 1998 at 00:33:12:

: : : : Greg-

: : : : Sorry for the delay in getting back to your post, but I wanted to avoid relaying false info, so i tracked down my notes. I got this information from Lee Kepler, very likely the man "from california" mentioned in some posts who has provided fairly authentic indy items. Apparently he knew someone who worked or interned on the set of Raiders.

: : : : Personally, I don't think I'll ever be %100 satisfied on confirming the material until Anthony Powell (costume designer on ToD & LC) tells me so. I also did a little research and found in the ToD Official Colletctor's Edition that, according to Powell, Ford needed "about 30 shirts" (p.21). He goes on to say that "there are also stunt men and doubles [stand ins] who have the same requirements" (p. 21).

: : : : So, we're lookin at around 90 shirts here. Something suggests to me that Dometakis probably didn't tailor each one (or this could explain why he's sick of doing it!). They just couldn't use the old Raiders costumes since they were "virtually destroyed", according to Powell (p. 21).

: : : : As for the color of the shirts, Kepler's friend mentioned about the box with shirts. From my experience working on sets [I'm a UCLA film student basking in much needed vacation], the color of clothes can change drastically under different lighting set-ups, particularly when gels (colored acetate placed over lights) are used for colored light. For continuity, there was probably someone in charge of keeping the costume colors consistent from shot to shot in scenes in order to have everything match as closely as possible for editing later. The reason for this is that every time that camera is moved, the entire lighting set up is changed (and setting the lights seems to take about %80 of the time while actual shooting takes about 5%.

: : : : Even "slight" color temperature changes make a difference. For instance; you know how when you look at a piece of clothing in the department store it's a color you like--then take it outside into the sunlight and it's a different color? It's because the flourescent lighting in the department store emits a lot of green light--it can make browns look greener for instance. As you know, sunlight (white light) is a combonation of the entire spectrum.

: : : : In filmdom, we still use gels even outside, so the assumption that picking a trouser color filmed in "sunlight", in the hopes of finding the "real" color, may not cut it. If you wanted to get real detailed, perhaps you could find production photos of the scene in question and see how they lit the set (look for gels on the lights).

: : : : My suggestion is to consider how and why you've come about selecting which item from what film or photo--this would make an interesting poll as well (ok, next post up)--and base your color decisions on that.

: : : : Kepler provided me with the following info which could or could not be the genuine article, though I think there is consensus on the shirt. The shirt is %100 Pima Cotton that ranged in color from a khaki to a washed out gray. The trousers are indeed NOT cotton--they are %100 Cavalry Twill Wool Whipcord.

: : : : Hope this helps.

: : : : Andrea

: : :
: : : Here's some more info on the trousers. Redundant but useful
: : : lingo for the trousers: Wide Leg, Slash Pockets, Double Forward
: : : Pleats, metal button fly, hook clasps.

: : : Cheers, Andrea
: : : :

: : Andrea, thanks for getting back to me. Lee Keppler is indeed the man I had the original fabric info from. Do you know his "friend" with the information? Keppler had been having the shirts and pants made to order by the tailor who supposedly made them for Western Costume Company, but because the guy was taking so long to complete orders (upwards of a year) and because Keppler had been getting phone calls from disgruntled customers wanting their purchases, he ended all orders, refunded some money and is now still waiting for some of the uncompleted orders. He wouldn't give me the name of the tailor for now in case the guy got upset about Keppler giving his name out. This info about the pants being the Wool instead of cotton is what I have believed ever since talking with Keppler. I don't know how he's found out most of what he has, but his information is usually reliable, so I trust him. I got my first shoes, bag, and jacket through him-back before I was "online" and had resources like this. How have you managed to find out most of this? No matter how many calls I make, I can't seem to get anywhere because I'm not in the film industry. Are you? From your lighting discussion, it appears so. Anyway, thanks so much for confirming my suspcicions, and giving me some new food for thought!

: : Greg

: Greg-
: Unfortunately I do not personally know this "friend" Lee was talking
: about. And I don't know where he digs up this stuff, but I agree
: that, after research, he's been fairly reliable, so I would take his
: opinion on face value more than the average person. As for the quotes
: I took from Anthony Powell, I got them from the "Indiana Jones
: Collector's Edition Book", you can check the pages.

: In regards to the industry question, I have worked with many people
: directly working in the "industry" from development (producing/script
: development) to post-production as a consequence of being a UCLA film
: student. For instance, I just recently finished taking an advanced
: screenwriting class from Richard Walter (uncredited screenwriter for
: "American Graffitti").

: I'm currently working as an assistant editor for a collegue [so that
: isn't exactly industry] and actually I'm taking a break from it now.
: I've had several offers for work in the industry and from collegues
: just in the last few weeks, but I'm taking this month and probably
: next off. After intensely working on my thesis film for a solid year,
: (and amicably parting with a nice guy), I just need the time off.

: As for the lighting info, I've worked on dozens of shoots and have
: DP'd (Director of Photograpy). No matter how big or how small
: the shoot, the principals remain pretty much the same--it's just
: the details.

: If you've got any other questions just let me know and thanks for
: all of your help and info!

: Regards, Andrea

Thanks Andrea! Sounds like you have a fascinating career ahead of you! Perhaps we'll all see your name in movie credits on the big screen someday! (If they already aren't!)


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