Re: Questions about Grail in Last Crusade/Bible

Posted by Sebulbob from modemcable249.113-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net on July 26, 2000 at 11:12:42:

In Reply to: Questions about Grail in Last Crusade/Bible posted by Indiana James Erler on July 26, 2000 at 00:21:26:

: I have a question concerning Last Crusade that has been nagging me for a while. In it a few times, the Holy Grail is referred to as not only the cup that Jesus used at the Last Supper, but also as the "...cup that caught the blood of the Crucifixion." I've been a Catholic since my baptism when I was just yay big, and I am also EXTREMELY interested in the Bible and Christian/Jewish history (as most people here are...I think).
: Anyway on Palm Sunday we have this deal where instead of a Traditional Gospel reading, we listen to the Passion of Jesus (from the Last Supper to being put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb). Anyway they alternate what Evangelist it comes from (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), and I have yet to hear of someone holding the Holy Grail to catch his blood...
: HOWEVER...John 19:31-37 (I have the Good Book here sitting in my lap) speaks of how the Soldier pierces Jesus' side and out flows Water and Blood (symbolic of him giving every last drop of blood and life for us). It doesn't say anything about anyone catching the blood in the Grail, though. Is this what they are referring to in the movie?
: Alright, two other questions...during the Passion in Gethsemane when Jesus is crying so hard that he is bleeding, and he is praying to God, He constantly is mentioning a "Cup of Suffering" that He wishes to be taken away from Him. Is this a reference to the Holy Grail, or what is it?
: Also in John right before Jesus dies he becomes thirsty, so he asks for something to drink. One of the guards soaks a sponge in "cheap wine" and gives it to Him to drink. After he drinks it he says "It is finished!" Then dies. What is John's symbolism behind this?
: On a side note, it kind of pisses me that there are 4 different versions of how Jesus died, and some things in one contradict another......

:
: Sorry if I bored any of you, but these questions have been bothering me for a little while, and so I decided to go to the experts.

The cup of suffering means the fact he was to give his life for the salvation of humanity, but in great suffering and infamy for the name of his Father. It means the will of God for Christ and what he have to do in His plan (Luke 22:42, Hebrews 5:7,8)

And the wine; did he drink or not? He didn't drink the first time,because it was drug (wine with myrrh:Matthew 27:34), but the second time it wasn't so he drank (John 19:28-30, in accomplishement of psalms 22:15) When Jesus says It is finished, he means he has achieved all God has asking him to do in Earth (John 17:4), accomplishing all the prophecies concerning what the Messiah was going to do at this time.

And for the Holy Grail, there is not a Christian legend before the Middle Ages and the stories of "Arthur et la queste du Saint-Graal"
in the 12th century. Besides, there's a lot of sacred cups in the Celtic lore of Ireland, like the story of "The Cauldron of Regeneration" and became part of a "Christianized" lore.

Hope it helps!

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: : I have a question concerning Last Crusade that has been nagging me for a while.  In it a few times, the Holy Grail is referred to as not only the cup that Jesus used at the Last Supper, but also as the "...cup that caught the blood of the Crucifixion."  I've been a Catholic since my baptism when I was just yay big, and I am also EXTREMELY interested in the Bible and Christian/Jewish history (as most people here are...I think).
: : Anyway on Palm Sunday we have this deal where instead of a Traditional Gospel reading, we listen to the Passion of Jesus (from the Last Supper to being put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb).  Anyway they alternate what Evangelist it comes from (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), and I have yet to hear of someone holding the Holy Grail to catch his blood...
: : HOWEVER...John 19:31-37 (I have the Good Book here sitting in my lap) speaks of how the Soldier pierces Jesus' side and out flows Water and Blood (symbolic of him giving every last drop of blood and life for us).  It doesn't say anything about anyone catching the blood in the Grail, though.  Is this what they are referring to in the movie?
: : Alright, two other questions...during the Passion in Gethsemane when Jesus is crying so hard that he is bleeding, and he is praying to God, He constantly is mentioning a "Cup of Suffering" that He wishes to be taken away from Him.  Is this a reference to the Holy Grail, or what is it?
: : Also in John right before Jesus dies he becomes thirsty, so he asks for something to drink.  One of the guards soaks a sponge in "cheap wine" and gives it to Him to drink.  After he drinks it he says "It is finished!"  Then dies.  What is John's symbolism behind this?  
: : On a side note, it kind of pisses me that there are 4 different versions of how Jesus died, and some things in one contradict another......

: : 
: : Sorry if I bored any of you, but these questions have been bothering me for a little while, and so I decided to go to the experts.

: The cup of suffering means the fact he was to give his life for the salvation of humanity, but in great suffering and infamy for the name of his Father. It means the will of God for Christ and what he have to do in His plan (Luke 22:42, Hebrews 5:7,8)

: And the wine; did he drink or not? He didn't drink the first time,because it was drug (wine with myrrh:Matthew 27:34), but the second time it wasn't so he drank (John 19:28-30, in accomplishement of psalms 22:15) When Jesus says It is finished, he means he has achieved all God has asking him to do in Earth (John 17:4), accomplishing all the prophecies concerning what the Messiah was going to do at this time.

: And for the Holy Grail, there is not a Christian legend before the Middle Ages and the stories of "Arthur et la queste du Saint-Graal"
: in the 12th century. Besides, there's a lot of sacred cups in the Celtic lore of Ireland, like  the story of "The Cauldron of Regeneration" and became part of a "Christianized" lore.

: Hope it helps!

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