I have a fedora with white sweat stains on the ribbon, and it has both a sweatband and a liner, guess it depends on how much you sweat!(nm)

Posted by Fedora from ppp-173.col.cableone.net on September 09, 2000 at 20:55:25:

In Reply to: Re: Surprise, surprise! Some thoughts from old Patterson on the jacket stuff... posted by Roses4jezabel@aol.com on September 09, 2000 at 06:38:17:

: I hope no noe takes offense here, but I have to say this. It's great that there is now another jacket available, but I'm sick of hearing it compared to Wested's, especially when the comparrison is used to make Wested's seem inferior. I've seen all the photos now, and the Flight Suits jacket seems to be the inferior model (again, based solely on the photos). In terms of the material it looks to me to be simillar to the jacket Kenner used for their 12" Indy figure. Also, the pockets appear to be large enough to smuggle a ham. I'm as obsessed as anyone, but who cares about 'stitches per inch' or what type of D rings are used in the straps? Do me a favor; step away from your computer and out of the information age for a couple of hours and GO WATCH THE MOVIE. The biggest problem with most of the authentic gear, for any film, is that things are often altered and modified 'on the fly' due to a particular need or damage to something and a whole host of other reasons. One of my biggest gripes with the whole gear thing is the hat. Everything out there is based on what Herbert Johnson said he made twenty years ago, and to his own admission, his Indy hat is made to the best of his recollection. Here's the gripe: THE RIBBON IS BLACK, ok? The only reason it appears other wise is a combination of lighting and the distressing process. Also, no one ever seems to notice that there are no fewer than three hats used in "Raiders" alone. At the beginning of the film it it looks very new. By Cairo it's misshappen, the brim is crooked and there is a very pronounced sweat stain that runs around the ribbon both above and below. Hell, just thinking on the stains you'd realize that his hat had no fancy satin lining OR a leather sweat band or the sweat would not have been absorbed into the felt. And then of course there's his nice, freshly blocked grey fedora that appears on the plane out of New York and in the final scene on the steps of the State Department. I'm sure it's the same with the jacket. If you watch the films it's hard to detect differences in design, but they're there. Peter Botwright DESIGNED the thing, for Christ's sake. Who cares if the stitch control on his sewing machine is set a bit wider these days? And as for the rings, who knows? Maybe the originals supplied by Peter to the production didn't hold the straps securely during the abuse the jackets were put through and had to be changed by Lucas's wardrobe department. I've designed and made things all my life and let me tell you, you never know if a thing is going to work until you use it. I would hate to think that if someone SLIGHTLY modified something of mine that my product would suddenly be labled a 'cheap, inferior copy'. When most people say this they are, of course, referring to the jacket's weight due to the lambskin. Two things, stay with me, by now you know I'm long winded: "Raiders" was pre-digital age. This means that you colud not crap out a universe with a keystroke and had to film largely on location. Let's look at Ford's attire for a moment; felt hat, long pants, work boots, wool socks, longsleeve shirt and a leather jacket, not to mention all the other gear and, if you have it all you realize, as I have, that it weighs you down considerablly. He wore this stuff in Mexico, Egypt and India. If you watch how the fabric wears and moves in the films you can see that it is very thin. It simply had to be. So before you start complaining and singing the praises of the 'new' jacket remember that we all want the AUTHENTIC jacket. That's what Peter offers, made of the same leather, cut from the same pattern and forged by the same hands that made the jacket worn by Ford. Before wining about how 'cheap' it appears remember also that is a MOVIE, the jacket was a PROP, not a winter coat. I also read of someone stating that Indy's jacket had a brass zipper (as I guess the FS jacket does from what I've read) as where wested's has an aluminum zipper. Indy's jacket was a WWI era flight jacket. Anyone who knows anything about Military gear knows that thing are not made for longevity. Gear is supplied by the contractor with the lowest bid. Indy's jacket probably would have had a steel zipper that would have rusted out after his swim in the South American river. I also read people complaining about the predistressed model being to uniform. Someone even said it looked like the jacket had been "put in a dryer with small rocks". Well, newsflash; that's EXACTLY HOW IT'S DONE. Here's the best fix; wad the jacket up, tie it in a bundle with some twine and put it in your dryer with a handful of lava rocks from your local lawn and garden shop. BE SURE TO WASH THE ROCKS FIRST; THE DUST ON THEM WILL AFFECT THE COLOR OF THE LEATHER! Being tied in a bundle means that the rocks will not touch many parts of the jacket, thus producing a more 'uneven' weathered effect. This is roughly the same process used in tye dying. NOTE: if you live with your parents or a significant other, be sure to do this when you're home alone. It's louder than Hell and beats the crap out of the dryer. Wash the dryer when you're done, too. I truly hope I haven't offened anyone, especially Patterson and the gang (they've worked so hard on our behalf). It's just that Peter was the first and only to offer the TRUE jacket. People used to hold this in high regard and speak well of his work. Now along comes yet another immitator and people speak of the Wested jacket as if it were crap. Thanks for listening. This two cent rant brought to you by Roses4jezabel@aol.com...

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: : I hope no noe takes offense here, but I have to say this. It's great that there is now another jacket available, but I'm sick of hearing it compared to Wested's, especially when the comparrison is used to make Wested's seem inferior. I've seen all the photos now, and the Flight Suits jacket seems to be the inferior model (again, based solely on the photos). In terms of the material it looks to me to be simillar to the jacket Kenner used for their 12" Indy figure. Also, the pockets appear to be large enough to smuggle a ham. I'm as obsessed as anyone, but who cares about 'stitches per inch' or what type of D rings are used in the straps? Do me a favor; step away from your computer and out of the information age for a couple of hours and GO WATCH THE MOVIE. The biggest problem with most of the authentic gear, for any film, is that things are often altered and modified 'on the fly' due to a particular need or damage to something and a whole host of other reasons. One of my biggest gripes with the whole gear thing is the hat. Everything out there is based on what Herbert Johnson said he made twenty years ago, and to his own admission, his Indy hat is made to the best of his recollection. Here's the gripe: THE RIBBON IS BLACK, ok? The only reason it appears other wise is a combination of lighting and the distressing process. Also, no one ever seems to notice that there are no fewer than three hats used in "Raiders" alone. At the beginning of the film it it looks very new. By Cairo it's misshappen, the brim is crooked and there is a very pronounced sweat stain that runs around the ribbon both above and below. Hell, just thinking on the stains you'd realize that his hat had no fancy satin lining OR a leather sweat band or the sweat would not have been absorbed into the felt. And then of course there's his nice, freshly blocked grey fedora that appears on the plane out of New York and in the final scene on the steps of the State Department. I'm sure it's the same with the jacket. If you watch the films it's hard to detect differences in design, but they're there. Peter Botwright DESIGNED the thing, for Christ's sake. Who cares if the stitch control on his sewing machine is set a bit wider these days? And as for the rings, who knows? Maybe the originals supplied by Peter to the production didn't hold the straps securely during the abuse the jackets were put through and had to be changed by Lucas's wardrobe department. I've designed and made things all my life and let me tell you, you never know if a thing is going to work until you use it. I would hate to think that if someone SLIGHTLY modified something of mine that my product would suddenly be labled a 'cheap, inferior copy'. When most people say this they are, of course, referring to the jacket's weight due to the lambskin. Two things, stay with me, by now you know I'm long winded: "Raiders" was pre-digital age. This means that you colud not crap out a universe with a keystroke and had to film largely on location. Let's look at Ford's attire for a moment; felt hat, long pants, work boots, wool socks, longsleeve shirt and a leather jacket, not to mention all the other gear and, if you have it all you realize, as I have, that it weighs you down considerablly. He wore this stuff in Mexico, Egypt and India. If you watch how the fabric wears and moves in the films you can see that it is very thin. It simply had to be. So before you start complaining and singing the praises of the 'new' jacket remember that we all want the AUTHENTIC jacket. That's what Peter offers, made of the same leather, cut from the same pattern and forged by the same hands that made the jacket worn by Ford. Before wining about how 'cheap' it appears remember also that is a MOVIE, the jacket was a PROP, not a winter coat. I also read of someone stating that Indy's jacket had a brass zipper (as I guess the FS jacket does from what I've read) as where wested's has an aluminum zipper. Indy's jacket was a WWI era flight jacket. Anyone who knows anything about Military gear knows that thing are not made for longevity. Gear is supplied by the contractor with the lowest bid. Indy's jacket probably would have had a steel zipper that would have rusted out after his swim in the South American river. I also read people complaining about the predistressed model being to uniform. Someone even said it looked like the jacket had been "put in a dryer with small rocks". Well, newsflash; that's EXACTLY HOW IT'S DONE. Here's the best fix; wad the jacket up, tie it in a bundle with some twine and put it in your dryer with a handful of lava rocks from your local lawn and garden shop. BE SURE TO WASH THE ROCKS FIRST; THE DUST ON THEM WILL AFFECT THE COLOR OF THE LEATHER! Being tied in a bundle means that the rocks will not touch many parts of the jacket, thus producing a more 'uneven' weathered effect. This is roughly the same process used in tye dying. NOTE: if you live with your parents or a significant other, be sure to do this when you're home alone. It's louder than Hell and beats the crap out of the dryer. Wash the dryer when you're done, too. I truly hope I haven't offened anyone, especially Patterson and the gang (they've worked so hard on our behalf). It's just that Peter was the first and only to offer the TRUE jacket. People used to hold this in high regard and speak well of his work. Now along comes yet another immitator and people speak of the Wested jacket as if it were crap. Thanks for listening. This two cent rant brought to you by Roses4jezabel@aol.com...

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