Re: Very good indeed.....

Posted by Michaelson from em12-686.utsi.edu on August 31, 1998 at 06:42:43:

In Reply to: Re: Very good.... posted by Laurie Jensen on August 30, 1998 at 21:39:50:

: : : : : :
: : : : : : : I know that a lot of us have been looking for a place that sells the ever elusive brown web belt (the pants belt worn by Indy in Raiders and TOD). Anyway, I found two online surplus dealers that are selling the brown web belts with the brass roller.

: : : : : : : COP.COM Army Navy Military Store
: : : : : : : http://www.cqp.com
: : : : : : : click online catalog, then under misc. to find the belts. Orders can be made online with their shopping cart system.

: : : : : : : Swede and Sons Military Surplus
: : : : : : : http://www.swedeandsons.com/
: : : : : : : just click belts on the front page

: : : : : : : Both places sell the belts for $2.95, plus S/H.

: : : : : : : The irony of this situation is two-fold: I just bought a brown web belt at a flea market, and I wasn't even looking for web belts! Oh, well, at least the rest of you can benefit.

: : : : : : : Hope this helps.

: : : : : : Any army surplus store will suppply a web belt.
: : : : : : Even in Edmonton (for those of you from Canada) there are several army surplus stores where not only the web belts but also the brown satchel we all know and love is available.

: : : : :
: : : : : While it's true that you can find web belts at any surplus store, brown web belts are very hard to come by, at least here in the states. I bought a tan and a khaki belt at a nearby surplus store, but they looked at me like I was crazy when I asked if they had any brown belts. I searched many online services (some were Canadian) and only these places listed above sell the brown belts. I know many people on this board have had difficulty finding brown belts, probably because the U.S. military stopped using this color a long time ago. At any rate, I just thought I would pass on what I found for those who are still looking.

: : : : : As for the bag, don't get me started! I've had an incredibly hard time coming up with a measly Mk VII. My messages on the Militaria want ad board have been completely ignored and there aren't any local dealers that sell militaria in my area. I've had three sales of the bag fall through because the dealers didn't know what bag they had. Then, I finally found a dealer advertising Mk VII bags at a fairly cheap price and ordered two. Today the bags came, and they were Mk VI issue, the previous gas mask series, with an incorrect double flap on the back. So now I have to find out if he has any Mk VII bags that I can swap for these.

: : : : : Did I mention that I don't bother to play lotto?

: : : : : Laurie, who really isn't that frustrated, lol.

: : : : Laurie, I have a questions, just for my own clarification....you keep saying the "brown belt", but also mention you purchased the khaki belt. They are one in the same. The khaki belts are the canvas versions that the US military no longer uses, but they still use the same color, just different material and buckle. I'll have to admit, I checked out your pages, and if those belts are the honest to goodness military spec belts, they're cheaper than dirt. My current "Quartermaster" catalog has the same belts at around $9.95, but they are listed as GI military spec. Anyhow, I was just wondering if we were talking about the same canvas khaki trouser belt with the roller buckle. Regards. Michaelson

: : :
: : : Michaelson, I think terminology may be getting confusing, so I'll try to explain what I mean. When I speak of brown belts I'm referring to the dark brown belts as seen on the page, which are approximately the shade of Indy's hat-in other words a fairly deep, mid-level shade of brown. The khaki belts are the lighter, beige colored belts that approximate the belt used in the LC (the darker brown belts were used in the first two films). These belts are definitely not the same color, and are listed separately on both pages. The Indy Diggs page also makes a differential between the two belts, using the same descriptions outlined above. To make matters more complicated there are also tan belts, which are similiar to khaki, but are even a more accurate copy, IMHO, for the LC belt. Both belts are a variation of beige, with the khaki belt having a more yellowish tinge and the tan belt exhibiting a more golden finish. I haven't seen anyone selling tan online; I bought mine at a military surplus store in my hometown and it was the only one they had, though it was brand spanking new. I don't know if the military still issues these belts since mine was made by Broner, but it seems to be made along military specs-i.e. the webbing is thicker than commercial web belts, which is the major difference I've found between the two. I think you'll probably have to email those sites to find out for sure if all their belts are made to military specs or not, because they don't give you a lot of specific information. My feeling is that the belts probably are up to military specification even if they aren't official issue, but I can't be sure about that.

: : : Hope this helps.

: : I see. I have always wondered where the "brown" versions as mentioned on Mike's Indy Diggs came from. All I have ever seen has been the khaki belt, but in the same situation as the Herbert Johnson, shift in color shades of clean to dust covered. The same arguments, and I have been involved in them myself, have gone concerning the satchel strap. I have posters and books that show the strap from tan to chocolate to black in color. I personally don't think there are two different color belts, but just the one, the military issued khaki of the US armed forces of the 1930's and beyond, that Indy would have had choice of. To keep myself out of the stew, though, I must confess I've worn a black with silver roller buckle for years. To continue the discussion regarding the khaki color differences, you might find it interesting that the Canadian military issued the Mark VII gas mask bag, same as the sought after Indy bag, but in the khaki color. The description I have been given is that it leans toward the mustard color side of khaki, though khaki falls between tan and the mustard color. Well, I'm splitting hairs here. I appreciate you letting me know where you're coming from. Thanks. Regards. Michaelson

:
: I think I understand your position better as well-we just have differing views on the belts period. Kind of like Rashomon, huh? I actually like the constant challenge that goes on about this stuff because it keeps me on my toes and even changes my mind on occasion. I still maintain the color difference between the belts, which was precipitated, I believe, by the change in pants. I have pants close in color to both styles and just for fun I tried changing the belts to the other pair. Frankly, it didn't look right; the gray pants look a lot better with brown and the taupe pants look more natural with the tan or khaki. A good costume designer would note such color disparities and adjust other items accordingly, which also may account for the slightly lighter toned equipment belt and the darker, somewhat grayer shirts ( once again, only an opinion).

: However, I think people should just do what they like and what they feel is correct. I'm sure many could care less, while others like to have the most authentic look possible. And there is always going to be disagreement on somewhat subjective things like color, especially when these items are hard to see clearly. At least people have the widest choice possible from which to decide on these matters, and that's what counts.

: As for the Canadian Mk VII bag, I was aware that it was a different color than the British bag. I've actually seen a picture of one, and you're right they do look mustard, so I guess agreement is possible, lol!

: Anyway, thanks for the interesting discussion.

: Laurie.

Same here. I saw Raiders when it first hit the big screen, and the first and only impression was that his belt was black. Don't know why, but that's what I saw. I've stuck with black all these years. Still works, because I know it's wrong, and there's no debate there. Anyway, good luck with your continued searches. I'm sorta getting to the age that I'm leveling out on exactly what I'm getting being the exact items that were used. If I can get the duplicate, good for me. If not, oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over it. A big change from 10 years ago. Regards. Michaelson

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: : : : : : : 
: : : : : : : : I know that a lot of us have been looking for a place that sells the ever elusive brown web belt (the pants belt worn by Indy in Raiders and TOD).  Anyway, I found two online surplus dealers that are selling the brown web belts with the brass roller.

: : : : : : : : COP.COM Army Navy Military Store
: : : : : : : : http://www.cqp.com 
: : : : : : : : click online catalog, then under misc. to find the belts.  Orders can be made online with their shopping cart system.

: : : : : : : : Swede and Sons Military Surplus
: : : : : : : : http://www.swedeandsons.com/
: : : : : : : : just click belts on the front page

: : : : : : : : Both places sell the belts for $2.95, plus S/H.

: : : : : : : : The irony of this situation is two-fold:  I just bought a brown web belt at a flea market, and I wasn't even looking for web belts!  Oh, well, at least the rest of you can benefit.

: : : : : : : : Hope this helps.

: : : : : : : Any army surplus store will suppply a web belt.  
: : : : : : : Even in Edmonton (for those of you from Canada) there are several army surplus stores where not only the web belts but also the brown satchel we all know and love is available.

: : : : : : 
: : : : : : While it's true that you can find web belts at any surplus store, brown web belts are very hard to come by, at least here in the states.  I bought a tan and a khaki belt at a nearby surplus store, but they looked at me like I was crazy when I asked if they had any brown belts.  I searched many online services (some were Canadian) and only these places listed above sell the brown belts.  I know many people on this board have had difficulty finding brown belts, probably because the U.S. military stopped using this color a long time ago.  At any rate, I just thought I would pass on what I found for those who are still looking.

: : : : : : As for the bag, don't get me started!  I've had an incredibly hard time coming up with a measly Mk VII.  My messages on the Militaria want ad board have been completely ignored and there aren't any local dealers that sell militaria in my area.  I've had three sales of the bag fall through because the dealers didn't know what bag they had.  Then, I finally found a dealer advertising Mk VII bags at a fairly cheap price and ordered two.  Today the bags came, and they were Mk VI issue, the previous gas mask series, with an incorrect double flap on the back.  So now I have to find out if he has any Mk VII bags that I can swap for these.

: : : : : : Did I mention that I don't bother to play lotto?

: : : : : : Laurie, who really isn't that frustrated, lol.

: : : : : Laurie, I have a questions, just for my own clarification....you keep saying the "brown belt", but also mention you purchased the khaki belt. They are one in the same. The khaki belts are the canvas versions that the US military no longer uses, but they still use the same color, just different material and buckle. I'll have to admit, I checked out your pages, and if those belts are the honest to goodness military spec belts, they're cheaper than dirt. My current "Quartermaster" catalog has the same belts at around $9.95, but they are listed as GI military spec. Anyhow, I was just wondering if we were talking about the same canvas khaki trouser belt with the roller buckle. Regards. Michaelson

: : : : 
: : : : Michaelson, I think terminology may be getting confusing, so I'll try to explain what I mean.  When I speak of brown belts I'm referring to the dark brown belts as seen on the page, which are approximately the shade of Indy's hat-in other words a fairly deep, mid-level shade of brown.  The khaki belts are the lighter, beige colored belts that approximate the belt used in the LC (the darker brown belts were used in the first two films).  These belts are definitely not the same color, and are listed separately on both pages.  The Indy Diggs page also makes a differential between the two belts, using the same descriptions outlined above.  To make matters more complicated there are also tan belts, which are similiar to khaki, but are even a more accurate copy, IMHO, for the LC belt.  Both belts are a variation of beige, with the khaki belt having a more yellowish tinge and the tan belt exhibiting a more golden finish.  I haven't seen anyone selling tan online; I bought mine at a military surplus store in my hometown and it was the only one they had, though it was brand spanking new.  I don't know if the military still issues these belts since mine was made by Broner, but it seems to be made along military specs-i.e. the webbing is thicker than commercial web belts, which is the major difference I've found between the two.  I think you'll probably have to email those sites to find out for sure if all their belts are made to military specs or not, because they don't give you a lot of specific information.  My feeling is that the belts probably are up to military specification even if they aren't official issue, but I can't be sure about that.

: : : : Hope this helps.

: : : I see. I have always wondered where the "brown" versions as mentioned on Mike's Indy Diggs came from. All I have ever seen has been the khaki belt, but in the same situation as the Herbert Johnson, shift in color shades of clean to dust covered. The same arguments, and I have been involved in them myself, have gone concerning the satchel strap. I have posters and books that show the strap from tan to chocolate to black in color. I personally don't think there are two different color belts, but just the one, the military issued khaki of the US armed forces of the 1930's and beyond, that Indy would have had choice of. To keep myself out of the stew, though, I must confess I've worn a black with silver roller buckle for years. To continue the discussion regarding the khaki color differences, you might find it interesting that the Canadian military issued the Mark VII gas mask bag, same as the sought after Indy bag, but in the khaki color. The description I have been given is that it leans toward the mustard color side of khaki, though khaki falls between tan and the mustard color. Well, I'm splitting hairs here. I appreciate you letting me know where you're coming from. Thanks. Regards. Michaelson

: : 
: : I think I understand your position better as well-we just have differing views on the belts period.  Kind of like Rashomon, huh?  I actually like the constant challenge that goes on about this stuff because it keeps me on my toes and even changes my mind on occasion.  I still maintain the color difference between the belts, which was precipitated, I believe, by the change in pants.  I have pants close in color to both styles and just for fun I tried changing the belts to the other pair.  Frankly, it didn't look right; the gray pants look a lot better with brown and the taupe pants look more natural with the tan or khaki.  A good costume designer would note such color disparities and adjust other items accordingly, which also may account for the slightly lighter toned equipment belt and the darker, somewhat grayer shirts ( once again, only an opinion).

: : However, I think people should just do what they like and what they feel is correct.  I'm sure many could care less, while others like to have the most authentic look possible.  And there is always going to be disagreement on somewhat subjective things like color, especially when these items are hard to see clearly.  At least people have the widest choice possible from which to decide on these matters, and that's what counts.

: : As for the Canadian Mk VII bag, I was aware that it was a different color than the British bag. I've actually seen a picture of one, and you're right they do look mustard, so I guess agreement is possible, lol!

: : Anyway, thanks for the interesting discussion.

: : Laurie.

: Same here. I saw Raiders when it first hit the big screen, and the first and only impression was that his belt was black. Don't know why, but that's what I saw. I've stuck with black all these years. Still works, because I know it's wrong, and there's no debate there. Anyway, good luck with your continued searches. I'm sorta getting to the age that I'm leveling out on exactly what I'm getting being the exact items that were used. If I can get the duplicate, good for me. If not, oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over it. A big change from 10 years ago. Regards. Michaelson

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