For Greg, the Ribbon expert ;)

Posted by Indy Sean from 24-164-153-78.nyc.rr.com on January 15, 2001 at 13:23:49:

In Reply to: Petersham ribbon-the answer! posted by Greg on January 15, 2001 at 11:37:41:

Hi,
I'm getting a little confused; I thought you meant that sawtooth referred to the ribbon itself being ridged like the edge of a quarter, but as I understand it you are referring to top and bottom edges of the ribbon itself, sort of being like a sawblade (zigzag) or looking like being cut by (very small!) pinking shears?

Do some of the hats used in the movies have a smooth ribbon with no ridges whatsoever on the ribbon itself because the photos I see on the net are mostly bad quality so I can't see any detail. My HJ ribbon is ridged and seamed; in design almost identical to the picture at the following link on Indygear:

http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/custom5.jpg

This ribbon has a seamed edge so I assume it is a Grosgrain? which would mean that my HJ ribbon is also a Grosgrain and therefore NOT the authentic Petersham I asked for, true or false?

---

: Here is the scoop on Petersham ribbon. What we are seeing in Raiders
: was grosgrain ribbon, as it is seamed or has a bound edge. What we
: see in half of the LC is grosgrain as it had a bound edge. What we
: see on the Smithsonian hat is grosgrain as it has a bound edge. What
: we see on some of the LC and all of the ToD photos have an unbound
: edge (sawtooth) and is therefore referred to as Petersham ribbon or
: Millinery belting. It is indeed used as a facing material inside the
: hems and waists of women's skirts, and was often used in hat making
: because without the bound edge, the ribbon easily forms a nice curve
: to fit around the crown of a hat, which is invariably conical rather
: than cylindrical unless we're talking about a top hat or a pork pie.
: Grosgrain needs to be ironed into a slight curve in order to wrap
: around the hat and fit snug against the crown. If you just wrap it
: around the crown, it will be loose toward the top. I don't know if
: this makes sense. I will see if I can scan some of the different
: ribbon to show you all...I don't have a scanner so I will have to do
: it at work. I'll also try to scan some photos of Indy's hats to
: demonstrate the difference actually occured throughout ToD and LC.
: Take a look at ToD photos closely. All of the hats in that film had
: the Petersham ribbon. Take a look at the tank chase scenes from LC.
: That hat has the Petersham ribbon. Not sure why the differe

Follow Ups:

Re: For Greg, the Ribbon expert ;) Greg 13:38:09 1/15/2001 (8)
- Thanks so much.. Indy Sean 15:10:56 1/15/2001 (0)
- Then there is the question of color. MK 14:30:02 1/15/2001 (6)
  - Re: Then there is the question of color. Greg 23:43:20 1/16/2001 (0)
  - I'm totally in agreement with you there Indy Sean 14:49:17 1/15/2001 (4)
    - Try RIT fabric dye, dark brown... Dakota Ellison 16:43:50 1/15/2001 (3)
      - Umm. Whats the secret? I tried dying some grosgrain, and it wouldn't color the light colored riboon.(nm) Fedora 17:41:25 1/15/2001 (1)
        
        What I dyed was cotton blend. A lot of grosgrain is entirely synthetic and won't dye well. (nm) Dakota Ellison 19:17:38 1/15/2001 (0)
      - Now there's a concept! (nm) MK 17:07:41 1/15/2001 (0)

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Comments:

: Hi,
: I'm getting a little confused; I thought you meant that sawtooth referred to the ribbon itself being ridged like the edge of a quarter, but as I understand it you are referring to top and bottom edges of the ribbon itself, sort of being like a sawblade (zigzag) or looking like being cut by (very small!) pinking shears?

: Do some of the hats used in the movies have a smooth ribbon with no ridges whatsoever on the ribbon itself because the photos I see on the net are mostly bad quality so I can't see any detail. My HJ ribbon is ridged and seamed; in design almost identical to the picture at the following link on Indygear:

: http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/custom5.jpg

: This ribbon has a seamed edge so I assume it is a Grosgrain? which would mean that my HJ ribbon is also a Grosgrain and therefore NOT the authentic Petersham I asked for, true or false?

: ---

: : Here is the scoop on Petersham ribbon.  What we are seeing in Raiders 
: : was grosgrain ribbon, as it is seamed or has a bound edge.  What we 
: : see in half of the LC is grosgrain as it had a bound edge.  What we 
: : see on the Smithsonian hat is grosgrain as it has a bound edge.  What 
: : we see on some of the LC and all of the ToD photos have an unbound 
: : edge (sawtooth) and is therefore referred to as Petersham ribbon or 
: : Millinery belting.  It is indeed used as a facing material inside the 
: : hems and waists of women's skirts, and was often used in hat making 
: : because without the bound edge, the ribbon easily forms a nice curve 
: : to fit around the crown of a hat, which is invariably conical rather 
: : than cylindrical unless we're talking about a top hat or a pork pie.  
: : Grosgrain needs to be ironed into a slight curve in order to wrap 
: : around the hat and fit snug against the crown.  If you just wrap it 
: : around the crown, it will be loose toward the top.  I don't know if 
: : this makes sense.  I will see if I can scan some of the different 
: : ribbon to show you all...I don't have a scanner so I will have to do 
: : it at work.  I'll also try to scan some photos of Indy's hats to 
: : demonstrate the difference actually occured throughout ToD and LC.  
: : Take a look at ToD photos closely.  All of the hats in that film had 
: : the Petersham ribbon.  Take a look at the tank chase scenes from LC.  
: : That hat has the Petersham ribbon.  Not sure why the differe

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