Great post....

Posted by One-timer from PPPa22-ResaleWestPalmBeach3-1R7257.dialinx.net on April 03, 2001 at 18:30:05:

In Reply to: Caution from an archaeologist about piecing together history posted by Bennett on April 03, 2001 at 17:29:21:

I've never posted here before but I visit often. And this post has to be be the clearest example yet as to why I do not believe there is any "one true" Indy anything.

I have purchased several examples of most of the Indy costume, including Stetson, Herbert Johnson and Peters Bros. fedoras; Wested and U.S. Wings leather jackets in both lamb and cowhide (and I plan to buy a Flight Suits very soon); Noel Howard and L.L. Bean shirts and pants; Alden boots, various holsters, whips and belts; Smith & Wesson revolvers, and Colt 1911 and Browning Hi-Power pistols, plus other related items. I buy them because they are great products and they remind me of the movies--better yet, they remind me of the spirit of the movies. I'm not trying to BE Indiana Jones and I'm not even trying to look like him. It's just a hobby and something I find interesting. I like to visit this forum because it is predominantly a postive atmosphere. To take all this too seriously or to condemn others for not following the "pure" path to Indyness is wrong--and pathetically ridiculous.

There will never be a positive answer to which ***** is THE true and correct...whatever. Get close enough to it to make yourself happy and don't sweat the small details. Unless you're talking about a bullet wound, does a quarter-inch off anything really make that much difference?

Happy trails.

: In response to the series of exchanges from Peter Botwright, Mr. Wax, Patterson, etc.

: I would caution about trying to piece together the history of the jacket from the prototype, etc.

: I am an archaeologist, and work everyday trying to piece together history from fragments of material culture. I know the limitations and the pitfalls.

: I am no expert in these jackets, so please take my comments with that in mind. Also, I am not trying to suggest who is right and wrong, only to suggest that we make lack the information to make that determination.

: I would urge caution in using any single example as evidence of this or that. The prototype jacket, for instance, or the commercial Westeds available, may not provide good information about who designed the jacket, whether or not the original patterns are used, etc.

: This is because:
: 1) there isn't enough information out there -- a couple of prototypes, with incomplete histories, must be used with caution. We don't know all of the variations, modifications, etc.

: 2) everybody knows a number of jackets were produced, with variations that can be seen in the movies, even within a single movie. This clouds the whole issue.

: 3) master patterns, if that is what Peter used to make his current Westeds, may not be exactly the same as those ultimately used in production. My wife is a seamstress, and these kinds of things happen often. You could argue that the master pattern is not 'exactly' the pattern used in the movie, because it does not have all of the later incorporated changes, but I think it would be an exaggeration to suggest that some variation constitutes not being original. I have seen Westeds, and they seem to approximate very closely what is in the movie. I can't comment on the inside pocket -- although it seems normal to me that a commercial version may be 'dressed up' a bit -- this reinforces my point about using caution with a single example. Differences, like gussets, etc, may be explainable if the whole story was known.

: I am writing this to suggest that we may want to tone down the accusations of lying, etc, and consider that all of this could be the result of different interpretations based on fragmentary evidence.

: Of course, there may be much more to the story, and since I may be hopelessly ill informed, I'll cease to comment on the topic.

: For what its worth . . .

: Bennett

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: I've never posted here before but I visit often.  And this post has to be be the clearest example yet as to why I do not believe there is any "one true" Indy anything.

: I have purchased several examples of most of the Indy costume, including Stetson, Herbert Johnson and Peters Bros. fedoras; Wested and U.S. Wings leather jackets in both lamb and cowhide (and I plan to buy a Flight Suits very soon); Noel Howard and L.L. Bean shirts and pants; Alden boots, various holsters, whips and belts; Smith & Wesson revolvers, and Colt 1911 and Browning Hi-Power pistols, plus other related items.  I buy them because they are great products and they remind me of the movies--better yet, they remind me of the spirit of the movies.  I'm not trying to BE Indiana Jones and I'm not even trying to look like him.  It's just a hobby and something I find interesting.  I like to visit this forum because it is predominantly a postive atmosphere.  To take all this too seriously or to condemn others for not following the "pure" path to Indyness is wrong--and pathetically ridiculous.

: There will never be a positive answer to which ***** is THE true and correct...whatever.  Get close enough to it to make yourself happy and don't sweat the small details.  Unless you're talking about a bullet wound, does a quarter-inch off anything really make that much difference?

: Happy trails.

: : In response to the series of exchanges from Peter Botwright, Mr. Wax, Patterson, etc.

: : I would caution about trying to piece together the history of the jacket from the prototype, etc.

: : I am an archaeologist, and work everyday trying to piece together history from fragments of material culture.  I know the limitations and the pitfalls.

: : I am no expert in these jackets, so please take my comments with that in mind.  Also, I am not trying to suggest who is right and wrong, only to suggest that we make lack the information to make that determination.

: : I would urge caution in using any single example as evidence of this or that.  The prototype jacket, for instance, or the commercial Westeds available, may not provide good information about who designed the jacket, whether or not the original patterns are used, etc.

: : This is because:
: : 1) there isn't enough information out there -- a couple of prototypes, with incomplete histories, must be used with caution.  We don't know all of the variations, modifications, etc.

: : 2) everybody knows a number of jackets were produced, with variations that can be seen in the movies, even within a single movie.  This clouds the whole issue.

: : 3) master patterns, if that is what Peter used to make his current Westeds, may not be exactly the same as those ultimately used in production.  My wife is a seamstress, and these kinds of things happen often.  You could argue that the master pattern is not 'exactly' the pattern used in the movie, because it does not have all of the later incorporated changes, but I think it would be an exaggeration to suggest that some variation constitutes not being original.  I have seen Westeds, and they seem to approximate very closely what is in the movie.  I can't comment on the inside pocket -- although it seems normal to me that a commercial version may be 'dressed up' a bit --  this reinforces my point about using caution with a single example.  Differences, like gussets, etc, may be explainable if the whole story was known.

: : I am writing this to suggest that we may want to tone down the accusations of lying, etc, and consider that all of this could be the result of different interpretations based on fragmentary evidence.

: : Of course, there may be much more to the story, and since I may be hopelessly ill informed, I'll cease to comment on the topic.

: : For what its worth . . .

: : Bennett

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