whoops! mixed them up! look forward to the pics! (nm)

Posted by Indy Sean from 206.67.74.127 on April 25, 2001 at 15:05:55:

In Reply to: Re: beats me..Greg or other ribbon expert, PLEASE CLARIFY! posted by Dakota Ellison on April 25, 2001 at 14:59:03:

: : as in the exact hat specs issue, it seems there are many different stories floating around. But just so we're all on the same page here, let's summarize on what we DO know:

: : please correct me if any of these are wrong.

: : 1. The Raiders ribbon does NOT have a bound edge, whereas the TOD and LC hats do.

: : 2. The Raiders hat ribbon was neither Petersham nor grosgrain (or is this just one opinion).

: : 3. The Raiders hat ribbon either has no ribs or indiscernable ribs (Dakota, can you show us the same pic you're looking at?)

: : 4. The TOD/LC ribbon DOES have vertical ribbing (I've seen closup pics of this to verify

: : What we are left with here is that we have no evidence as to what exactly the traits are of Petersham nor gros-grain, nor any information as to waht ribbon was used on the Raiders hat, whereas the TOD/LC ribbons at least can be discerned visually. If the difference or traits of ribbons is discernable via cotton content/syntheticity, then we have no way of knowing even for the TOD/LC ribbons and are a dead end there also.

: : -IS

:
: No, the Raiders ribbon DOES hav a bound edge, while the ToD and LC hats are unbound Petersham. The closest shot in Raiders is when Indy whips the gun from Barranca's hand and walks toward the camera. Even there it's very brief. When I get home, I'll find some pics to post.
: Cheers,
: Dakota

: : -----

: : : : the only visual difference i HAVE seen between gros grain and petersham is the edge of the ribbon, where in some it is bound and some it isn't. Are you saying Petersham is smooth, or just that it has no horizontal ribs; because I've never seen ANY ribbon with horizontal ribbing, only vertical.

: : : : p.s. if the Raiders ribbon is neither Petersham or grosgrain, what is it? I've never seen the Raiders ribbon close up so I don't know if it's bound or if it has ribbing, although I heard that all 3 films had ribbed ribbon, whereas ROTLA had no bound edge, and TOD and LC did have the bound edge. If Petersham has no ribs, why did HJ tell me the ribbon on my hat was Peterham? It has ribs AND a bound edge...
: : : : : : -IS

: : : : : : : Would you give me the link to your pics on the ribbon comparison? I am getting into ribbons now,and I know you have researched this subject. I read at a millinery website today, that there is no difference between grosgrain and petersham. They maintained that it was just different terminology for the same product. The Brits call it petersham, while the Americans call it grosgrain. Any thoughts? Thanks, Fedora

: : : : : but, I've heard Petersham called "the original grosgain". Look at closeups of Ford in LC and TOD. It's that same scallop edged Petersham ribbon. The Raiders ribbon is not Petersham or grosgain in my opinion.
: : : : : Cheers,
: : : : : Dakota
: : : : :

: : :
: : : Here's a quote from the FAQ section of IndyGear:

: : : "The ribbon on the hat was NOT a Petersham. Noel (Howard) told me that the Petersham looks very much like it but the original ribbon was not a petersham and that version is not for sale anymore. He doesn't know what it was but it was neither Petersham or Grosgrain." Kenneth

: : : I meant the bound edge, not horizontal ribs. Yes, the petersham on the TOD and LC hats has vertical ribbing. All I can tell from the closeups in Raiders is the ribbon has a bound edge, but no vertical ribbing, unless the ribbing is so fine that it's not discernible.
: : : If petersham can have a bound edge then perhaps the only difference is the quality of the fabric. Petersham=cotton (at least partially)
: : : Grosgain=synthetic? I recall Greg did quite a disertation on this subject. Maybe he'll jump in here. Or Kenneth, who made the above statement.
: : : Cheers,
: : : Dakota

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: : : as in the exact hat specs issue, it seems there are many different stories floating around. But just so we're all on the same page here, let's summarize on what we DO know:

: : : please correct me if any of these are wrong.

: : : 1. The Raiders ribbon does NOT have a bound edge, whereas the TOD and LC hats do.

: : : 2. The Raiders hat ribbon was neither Petersham nor grosgrain (or is this just one opinion).

: : : 3. The Raiders hat ribbon either has no ribs or indiscernable ribs (Dakota, can you show us the same pic you're looking at?)

: : : 4. The TOD/LC ribbon DOES have vertical ribbing (I've seen closup pics of this to verify

: : : What we are left with here is that we have no evidence as to what exactly the traits are of Petersham nor gros-grain, nor any information as to waht ribbon was used on the Raiders hat, whereas the TOD/LC ribbons at least can be discerned visually. If the difference or traits of ribbons is discernable via cotton content/syntheticity, then we have no way of knowing even for the TOD/LC ribbons and are a dead end there also.

: : : -IS

: : 
: : No, the Raiders ribbon DOES hav a bound edge, while the ToD and LC hats are unbound Petersham. The closest shot in Raiders is when Indy whips the gun from Barranca's hand and walks toward the camera. Even there it's very brief. When I get home, I'll find some pics to post. 
: : Cheers,
: : Dakota

: : : -----

: : : : : the only visual difference i HAVE seen between gros grain and petersham is the edge of the ribbon, where in some it is bound and some it isn't. Are you saying Petersham is smooth, or just that it has no horizontal ribs; because I've never seen ANY ribbon with horizontal ribbing, only vertical.

: : : : : p.s. if the Raiders ribbon is neither Petersham or grosgrain, what is it? I've never seen the Raiders ribbon close up so I don't know if it's bound or if it has ribbing, although I heard that all 3 films had ribbed ribbon, whereas ROTLA had no bound edge, and TOD and LC did have the bound edge. If Petersham has no ribs, why did HJ tell me the ribbon on my hat was Peterham? It has ribs AND a bound edge...
: : : : : : : -IS

: : : : : : : : Would you give me the link to your pics on the ribbon comparison? I am getting into ribbons now,and I know you have researched this subject. I read at a millinery website today, that there is no difference between grosgrain and petersham. They maintained that it was just different terminology for the same product. The Brits call it petersham, while the Americans call it grosgrain. Any thoughts? Thanks, Fedora

: : : : : : but, I've heard Petersham called "the original grosgain". Look at closeups of Ford in LC and TOD. It's that same scallop edged Petersham ribbon. The Raiders ribbon is not Petersham or grosgain in my opinion.
: : : : : : Cheers,
: : : : : : Dakota
: : : : : :

: : : : 
: : : : Here's a quote from the FAQ section of IndyGear:

: : : : "The ribbon on the hat was NOT a Petersham. Noel (Howard) told me that the Petersham looks very much like it but the original ribbon was not a petersham and that version is not for sale anymore. He doesn't know what it was but it was neither Petersham or Grosgrain."  Kenneth

: : : : I meant the bound edge, not horizontal ribs. Yes, the petersham on the TOD and LC hats has vertical ribbing. All I can tell from the closeups in Raiders is the ribbon has a bound edge, but no vertical ribbing, unless the ribbing is so fine that it's not discernible.
: : : : If petersham can have a bound edge then perhaps the only difference is the quality of the fabric. Petersham=cotton (at least partially)
: : : : Grosgain=synthetic? I recall Greg did quite a disertation on this subject. Maybe he'll jump in here. Or Kenneth, who made the above statement.
: : : : Cheers,
: : : : Dakota

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