Re: on the money

Posted by IJFan from liverbird.bmc.com on October 20, 1998 at 09:58:55:

In Reply to: on the money posted by walker on October 20, 1998 at 06:40:42:

Hmmmm... The shovel doesn't bother me so much. Most military vehicles have equipment like that stowed on their exteriors. In fact, I'm about to order a set of shovel mount brackets for the fender of my Land Rover.

As for the points below.

1. I agree completely with the blade trap issue. The top blade makes sense. The other one is just stupid.

2. I can see how there'd be a way to support the I, E, H, O, V, and A with small, steel bracing that ran to the sides, but that left all the other stones free to crumble. Sure, there'll be some lattice work that you *could* grab onto if you happened to randomly put an arm in the right place, but the odds are you'd just grab at something that'd crumble with you. The thing that really bothers me about this shot is that when Indy steps onto the J, he falls forward toward the trap, but the surface that he falls on doesn't give way. That doesn't make any sense...he should have crumbled through and fallen to his doom.

3. It's true that if you move from side to side, you'd notice the bridge, but if you look at the crack in the rock that you have to step from, it's very narrow. You couldn't move much laterally. Probably not enough to be able to tell...unless you were looking for it. Additionally, the bridge was set down about 8 inches from the ledge, so if you just toed around a little, you wouldn't feel it.

None of this stuff bothers me nearly as much as a man who continues to live for about 5 minutes despite the absence of his still beating heart, removed from a hole in his chest which immediately resealed itself. But whatever... it's a movie... you have to let go a little.

-IJFan

:
: Not at all. Crusade has always stood out for having some major blunders when it comes to common sense. Especially the final 3 traps. Consider the following:

: 1) Blade trap - the humble man kneels before god but does he have to forward roll as well? In the book written by Rob MacGregor (based on the script used at the beginning of filming) there are several blades, I believe, but they all run parallel to the ground above the waist area. As long as you kneel, you're OK. This trap is lame for two reasons - one, any sensible person would try crawling if he saw all his friends heads were being cut off. Second, thank God Indy's not really tall, otherwise, penitent or no, he'd be dead.

: 2) What exactly is holding any of these stones up? As we see from the shot from below as Indy falls, there are no supports to any of these things. Also, in the book and as initially filmed, a big spider jumps out of the first hole and onto Indy's leg. In some promotional photos, you can actually see this shot with Indy freaking out as a big taratula sits on his leg. At some point, it must have occured to these guys that Indy dealt with spiders in the past like these were a bother and nothing more, so they changed the shot. Besides the actual existence of the publicity still and the book's description of the scene, consider the size of the hole Indy supposedly fell through and watch him brush off his thigh as he gets up, like he's brushing away the remnants of something.

: 3) In the book, this was a real leap of faith in that the land bridge didn't start until about the halfway point of the chasm. You had to commit and jump, knowing you'd never make the other side, as opposed to just sticking your foot out and tapping around. What kind of a challenge is that? Also, consider that the nature of a bridge constructed to blend into the immediate background will not hold up once your angle of observation changes (as we see with the pivoting camera shot as Indy stands on the bridge). This means that as Indy looks down, and the bridge blends into the chasm below, he can't move his head or look at it from a different angle, otherwise the deception would be discovered. I dunno, maybe they wanted us to think it was a magic bridge, but I don't buy it.

: Sorry for carrying on, but it bugs me that Lucas and Ford can't get it together for a 4th based on not having a script, when they're willing to do dumb stuff like the above.

: walker

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup:

Name:    
E-Mail:  
Subject: 
Comments:

: Hmmmm... The shovel doesn't bother me so much.  Most military vehicles have equipment like that stowed on their exteriors.  In fact, I'm about to order a set of shovel mount brackets for the fender of my Land Rover.

: As for the points below.

: 1. I agree completely with the blade trap issue.  The top blade makes sense.  The other one is just stupid.

: 2. I can see how there'd be a way to support the I, E, H, O, V, and A with small, steel bracing that ran to the sides, but that left all the other stones free to crumble.  Sure, there'll be some lattice work that you *could* grab onto if you happened to randomly put an arm in the right place, but the odds are you'd just grab at something that'd crumble with you.  The thing that really bothers me about this shot is that when Indy steps onto the J, he falls forward toward the trap, but the surface that he falls on doesn't give way.  That doesn't make any sense...he should have crumbled through and fallen to his doom.

: 3. It's true that if you move from side to side, you'd notice the bridge, but if you look at the crack in the rock that you have to step from, it's very narrow.  You couldn't move much laterally.  Probably not enough to be able to tell...unless you were looking for it.  Additionally, the bridge was set down about 8 inches from the ledge, so if you just toed around a little, you wouldn't feel it.

: 
: None of this stuff bothers me nearly as much as a man who continues to live for about 5 minutes despite the absence of his still beating heart, removed from a hole in his chest which immediately resealed itself.  But whatever... it's a movie... you have to let go a little.

: -IJFan

: : 
: : Not at all.  Crusade has always stood out for having some major blunders when it comes to common sense.  Especially the final 3 traps.  Consider the following:

: : 1)  Blade trap - the humble man kneels before god but does he have to forward roll as well?  In the book written by Rob MacGregor (based on the script used at the beginning of filming) there are several blades, I believe, but they all run parallel to the ground above the waist area.   As long as you kneel, you're OK.  This trap is lame for two reasons - one, any sensible person would try crawling if he saw all his friends heads were being cut off.  Second, thank God Indy's not really tall, otherwise, penitent or no, he'd be dead.

: : 2)  What exactly is holding any of these stones up?  As we see from the shot from below as Indy falls, there are no supports to any of these things.  Also, in the book and as initially filmed, a big spider jumps out of the first hole and onto Indy's leg.  In some promotional photos, you can actually see this shot with Indy freaking out as a big taratula sits on his leg.  At some point, it must have occured to these guys that Indy dealt with spiders in the past like these were a bother and nothing more, so they changed the shot.  Besides the actual existence of the publicity still and the book's description of the scene, consider the size of the hole Indy supposedly fell through and watch him brush off his thigh as he gets up, like he's brushing away the remnants of something.

: : 3)  In the book, this was a real leap of faith in that the land bridge didn't start until about the halfway point of the chasm.  You had to commit and jump, knowing you'd never make the other side, as opposed to just sticking your foot out and tapping around.  What kind of a challenge is that?  Also, consider that the nature of a bridge constructed to blend into the immediate background will not hold up once your angle of observation changes (as we see with the pivoting camera shot as Indy stands on the bridge).  This means that as Indy looks down, and the bridge blends into the chasm below, he can't move his head or look at it from a different angle, otherwise the deception would be discovered.  I dunno, maybe they wanted us to think it was a magic bridge, but I don't buy it.

: : Sorry for carrying on, but it bugs me that Lucas and Ford can't get it together for a 4th based on not having a script, when they're willing to do dumb stuff like the above.

: : walker

Optional:

Link URL:   
Link Title: 
Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Indyfan Forum ] [ FAQ ]