Re: Forgive me father for I have sinned...

Posted by Greg from kenn001a-p4-053.cybertours.com on June 05, 2001 at 23:30:57:

In Reply to: Forgive me father for I have sinned... posted by Patterson on June 04, 2001 at 00:43:46:

: ...but, I have not watched ANY of the movies for weeks – until just tonight – and I’ll tell you why. The collar discussions just about put me over the edge. I began to question what it was I saw with my own eyes, and I began to feel a few die-hard supporters and partners in crime had their doubts as well.

: Then I decided to bring the Raiders DVD along with the family and me on a trip up to Seattle. We were going up just for the weekend, as my 8-year-old was to be receiving his first communion at the church we had gone to for the last several years we had lived up in the gloom and drizzle that is the Pacific Northwest.

: I decided to watch Raiders the other night when the kids went to bed, along with my father-in-law ad my wife. The three of us got into a fairy lively Indygear session during the opening sequence. You see – we all saw the pointed collar that I have on my veg goat Expedition clear as day. We guessed that the curvature of the collar point occurs over a 3/8-inch radius. It was plainer than the scar on old Harry’s chin, folks. The funny thing was – once he leaps out of the temple and into the hands of the Hovitos, he’s wearing another jacket with a slightly more rounded tip on the collar – this one a dead ringer for both my wife’s veg goat and my chrome goat. We guessed the curve occurs over a ½ inch radius. Vindication – at least with my self.

: I’ve been thrown into the role of being a jacket expert, and I’d be fibbing if I said I did not enjoy it at times. But I have to say that skirmishes with some who I’ve come to expect to have a good eye for this stuff has left me frustrated. I feel I’m saying the sky is blue, and the feedback is that it’s really purple. I don’t know how to respond, other than go back to what I see.

: I mean no disrespect by any of this, and hope anybody who finds this either remotely interesting or may feel they are the subjects of this to understand. You see, though I no longer have any Westeds, I have pictures of all that have passed through my hands, and I’ve not seen a collar that looks right on any of them – it was one of a number of “issues” I’ve had with them. BUT, I don’t want to start a Botwright-bashing festival again.

: I’m looking at a freeze frame of the collar inside the temple sequence in Raiders, and I see the more pointed collar that I have on my veg goat Expedition. Looks like the real deal to these old eyes. Wish I could take freeze frame stills on my PC – maybe I’ll hit up MK this week.

: Cheers!

: Patterson

I haven't posted in a while, but I read your entry here, Patterson, and I thought I would respond by saying that you've hit the pink elephant in the room with this one. You said above that it looks right "to your eyes." Well, this is what I have been saying all along, and I wish people would just stop bickering about what's accurate and what's not. I've seen so many photos of this costume over the years and have seen SO many variations in the costumes that Ford wore and in the ones the stuntmen wore that I think people need to decide FOR THEMSELVES what looks good and go with it. "Don't try to sway others into thinking what you think is right," I've been saying for a long time, and so far, no one's seemed to pay any attention to this thought. I like my equipment. I am fairly happy that it is accurate. Hell, I have what I feel is the most accurate Webley and even though I provided photographic proof from a LC shot that it had a bird's head grip, no one even listened to me and they are still convinced that it had a square butt. ! What am I going to do? Nothing. I know I have the right one and if others like the square butt straight MkVI, great for them! This is not a contest and sometimes folks around here treat it like one. If it were a contest, many of us would have won a long time ago, and some folks would barely have begun at this point. I like my Wested, but I'm not going to try to convince you to get rid of your many jackets and go back to Wested. That's your choice and none of my business. I wish more people would realize this. Sorry for the rant. I like this hobby and I love Indy but I think that the bickering turns me off a bit...

Greg

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: : ...but, I have not watched ANY of the movies for weeks – until just tonight – and I’ll tell you why.  The collar discussions just about put me over the edge.  I began to question what it was I saw with my own eyes, and I began to feel a few die-hard supporters and partners in crime had their doubts as well.

: : Then I decided to bring the Raiders DVD along with the family and me on a trip up to Seattle.  We were going up just for the weekend, as my 8-year-old was to be receiving his first communion at the church we had gone to for the last several years we had lived up in the gloom and drizzle that is the Pacific Northwest.

: : I decided to watch Raiders the other night when the kids went to bed, along with my father-in-law ad my wife.  The three of us got into a fairy lively Indygear session during the opening sequence.  You see – we all saw the pointed collar that I have on my veg goat Expedition clear as day. We guessed that the curvature of the collar point occurs over a 3/8-inch radius.  It was plainer than the scar on old Harry’s chin, folks.  The funny thing was – once he leaps out of the temple and into the hands of the Hovitos, he’s wearing another jacket with a slightly more rounded tip on the collar – this one a dead ringer for both my wife’s veg goat and my chrome goat.  We guessed the curve occurs over a ½ inch radius.  Vindication – at least with my self.

: : I’ve been thrown into the role of being a jacket expert, and I’d be fibbing if I said I did not enjoy it at times.  But I have to say that skirmishes with some who I’ve come to expect to have a good eye for this stuff has left me frustrated.  I feel I’m saying the sky is blue, and the feedback is that it’s really purple.  I don’t know how to respond, other than go back to what I see.

: : I mean no disrespect by any of this, and hope anybody who finds this either remotely interesting or may feel they are the subjects of this to understand.   You see, though I no longer have any Westeds, I have pictures of all that have passed through my hands, and I’ve not seen a collar that looks right on any of them – it was one of a number of “issues” I’ve had with them.  BUT, I don’t want to start a Botwright-bashing festival again.

: : I’m looking at a freeze frame of the collar inside the temple sequence in Raiders, and I see the more pointed collar that I have on my veg goat Expedition.  Looks like the real deal to these old eyes.  Wish I could take freeze frame stills on my PC – maybe I’ll hit up MK this week.

: : Cheers!

: : Patterson

: 
: I haven't posted in a while, but I read your entry here, Patterson, and I thought I would respond by saying that you've hit the pink elephant in the room with this one.  You said above that it looks right "to your eyes."  Well, this is what I have been saying all along, and I wish people would just stop bickering about what's accurate and what's not.  I've seen so many photos of this costume over the years and have seen SO many variations in the costumes that Ford wore and in the ones the stuntmen wore that I think people need to decide FOR THEMSELVES what looks good and go with it.  "Don't try to sway others into thinking what you think is right," I've been saying for a long time, and so far, no one's seemed to pay any attention to this thought.  I like my equipment.  I am fairly happy that it is accurate.  Hell, I have what I feel is the most accurate Webley and even though I provided photographic proof from a LC shot that it had a bird's head grip, no one even listened to me and they are still convinced that it had a square butt.  ! What am I going to do?  Nothing.  I know I have the right one and if others like the square butt straight MkVI, great for them!  This is not a contest and sometimes folks around here treat it like one.  If it were a contest, many of us would have won a long time ago, and some folks would barely have begun at this point.  I like my Wested, but I'm not going to try to convince you to get rid of your many jackets and go back to Wested.  That's your choice and none of my business.  I wish more people would realize this.  Sorry for the rant.  I like this hobby and I love Indy but I think that the bickering turns me off a bit...

: Greg

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