Re: wested goat skin

Posted by Peter Botwright from spider-mtc-te013.proxy.aol.com on June 16, 2001 at 19:33:55:

In Reply to: Re: wested goat skin posted by Patterson on June 16, 2001 at 15:02:13:

What generally the average person does not understand is the difference between veg tanned and chrome tanned. Basicly the veg tanned is that the skins are dyed with open pores. The chroming agent seals the skin to stop water dirt and any other element absorbing into it. The bad part is that the chroming or sealing makes the skin harder and less pliable. In goat skins this is a big problem because the high fat content only stiffens the skins when chromed. Therein is the problem with goatskins. I Have been making leather garments for other 30 years and am a consultant in the UK. My knowledgw of the leather trade is legendary and complete. I am willing to answer all queries about leather and reply to so called experts who know little about leather or garment construction other than what they have seen on film or television.
Cheers
Peter

: : Who was it who got a goat skin wested?

: : I spoke to peter while he was making it. He seemed to not really like the hide and felt that it was a very stiff. Is this usual with goat skin before it breaks in? I was thinking that I might get myself one as peter said he could easily arrange it. SOoooo, what do you guys generally think of goat skin? Is it as light as lamb? I know that it is more durable but what is the difference between chrome and veg (what do chrome and veg stand for?).

: : Patterson.... I believe that this is your field. Any commments would be much appreciated.

: I'm betting Peter would use chrome tanned - generally more geared towards garment applications as it drapes much more like lamb, especially when new. A few years ago I approached Peter about using goat and he refused - said the skins were too difficult to work with. From talking to both David Hack (US Wings) and Dave Marshall (FS), I've learned that procuring and working with goat can be more challanging than cow or lamb. One big difference - it takes a bit more work to obtain high quality goat in large enough skins to make a jacket like our favorite hero's. You need a good sized goat to make a size 48 jacket's back panel out of one piece. This is one reason the A2 was revamped by the military into a new 2000 spec - it allows more panels then the old jacket did.

: Back to the specifics of your question. Goat skins of comparable thickness will tend to be lighter in weight than lamb, but goat skins tend to run a bit thicker than the weight of lamb I've seen Peter use. To me this is a plus, as I've felt the lambskin he's used recently has not had the weight and drape of the jackets used in the movies - which he confirmed in a conversation we had awhile back. His recommendation at the time was his new finish cowhide, which I like a lot! For me though - the quality of goatskin I've seen FS use is the way to go. If Peter has obtained skins along this line of quality, I think the buyer will be pleased.

: On veg - I personally prefer it. It is stiffer when new, but it looks and feels much better as it ages. I'm down to just 2 jacket in the closet - 1 veg goat FS and one chrome goat FS. The veg gets worn while the chrome really does not. My personal preference.

: Cheers!

: Patterson

Follow Ups:

Thank you, Peter... Patterson 03:08:54 6/17/2001 (1)
- cheers guys... soap-box jones 10:36:43 6/17/2001 (0)

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: What generally the average person does not understand is the difference between veg tanned and chrome tanned. Basicly the veg tanned is that the skins are dyed with open pores. The chroming agent seals the skin to stop water dirt and any other element absorbing into it. The bad part is that the chroming or sealing  makes the skin harder and less pliable. In goat skins this is a big problem because the high fat content only stiffens the skins when chromed. Therein is the problem with goatskins. I Have been making leather garments for other 30 years and am a consultant in the UK. My knowledgw of the leather trade is legendary and complete. I am willing to answer all queries about leather and reply to so called experts who know  little about leather or garment construction other than what they have seen on film or television. 
: Cheers
: Peter

: : : Who was it who got a goat skin wested?

: : : I spoke to peter while he was making it.  He seemed to not really like the hide and felt that it was a very stiff.  Is this usual with goat skin before it breaks in?  I was thinking that I might get myself one as peter said he could easily arrange it.  SOoooo, what do you guys generally think of goat skin?  Is it as light as lamb?  I know that it is more durable but what is the difference between chrome and veg (what do chrome and veg stand for?).

: : : Patterson.... I believe that this is your field.  Any commments would be much appreciated.

: : I'm betting Peter would use chrome tanned - generally more geared towards garment applications as it drapes much more like lamb, especially when new.  A few years ago I approached Peter about using goat and he refused - said the skins were too difficult to work with.  From talking to both David Hack (US Wings) and Dave Marshall (FS), I've learned that procuring and working with goat can be more challanging than cow or lamb.  One big difference - it takes a bit more work to obtain high quality goat in large enough skins to make a jacket like our favorite hero's.  You need a good sized goat to make a size 48 jacket's back panel out of one piece.  This is one reason the A2 was revamped by the military into a new 2000 spec - it allows more panels then the old jacket did.

: : Back to the specifics of your question.  Goat skins of comparable thickness will tend to be lighter in weight than lamb, but goat skins tend to run a bit thicker than the weight of lamb I've seen Peter use.  To me this is a plus, as I've felt the lambskin he's used recently has not had the weight and drape of the jackets used in the movies - which he confirmed in a conversation we had awhile back.  His recommendation at the time was his new finish cowhide, which I like a lot!  For me though - the quality of goatskin I've seen FS use is the way to go.  If Peter has obtained skins along this line of quality, I think the buyer will be pleased.

: : On veg - I personally prefer it.  It is stiffer when new, but it looks and feels much better as it ages.  I'm down to just 2 jacket in the closet - 1 veg goat FS and one chrome goat FS.  The veg gets worn while the chrome really does not.  My personal preference.

: : Cheers!

: : Patterson

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