Interpretation perhaps?

Posted by Fedora from 24.116.27.220 on June 20, 2001 at 17:46:47:

In Reply to: It's no assumption. posted by Shawnkara on June 20, 2001 at 16:50:58:

: Try holding the Bilbe (old and new testament both) up to the standards of logic. And for that matter, history. The Bilbe will have you believe that the Romans' occupation of Jerusalem was a passive/agressive occupation. It was the Church who ordered the death of Christ and the iron fist of Pontias Pillate readily obliged? Show me one other instance in history, in FACT, when Roman occupation of anything was any where near passive. The cave in which the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, along with countless other relics, was the result of Jerusalem's people concealing their valuables as the Romans descended upon them. The New Testament is a colletion of four accounts; those of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. All were written from four points of view. All were written, as is any story that wishes to glorify a thing, with great embelishment. All were written fifteen to twenty years after the fact. And all were written DURING ROMAN OCCUPATION. Who would you blame? The tyrants reading over your shoulder as you wrote? I think not. The Bible is written (where faith is concerned) in Q&A format. Compare the Bilbe to the FAQ page of this very site. You'll see a frightening resemblence. Action? Consequece. Take the book of Job. Why is it included? No, not because it really happened. The writers were clever enough to realize that if someone were really subjected to such physical, psychological and spiritual torture a revolt wolud surely insue when 'GOD' failed to appear and save the man. So, he endures this horror, faith unshaken, save for demanding a reason from God as he lay dying. And, he is given back all that was taken from him ten-fold. Sounds kinda like how income tax works, doesn't it? Now, when horrible attrocities are committed and God fails to save us, we have a more 'logical' answer; "God works in mysterious ways." If the book of Job were true, well, then that makes matters even worse. Satan was ALLOWED to torture Job by GOD himself when Satan questioned mans' faith in God. It's an appalling display of cruelty and arrogance on the part of your 'God'.

I do see your point very clearly, and must admit, that I have had serious questions concerning my belief system. But, at some point in time, I stopped understanding the Bible in a literal sense. Anathema to logical thinking, but logic can be a religion in itself. Scientific understanding seems to be almost always tenative, until a more correct understanding is assumed to be "fact". That is the history of science in a nutshell. As far as holding the Bible up to history, well, you must have forgotten, that the Old Testament is in fact, the history of the Hebrews. We basically have no other source of their history. To say that this history is pure fiction, is quite a leap to take. Especially since certain sites have been discovered that the OT referred to in it's ficticious tales. The logic that you speak of is what the Greeks contributed to western culture. That this logic bastardized ancient texts, and our understanding of them, may be more to the point, and helps contribute to your misunderstanding of the Bible. Supposedly, the Church, as you call it, wasn't a church. What Jesus was up against was the established religion of the Hebrews, and when he said that who sees him, sees the Father, well, all hell broke loose. To the Hebrews of that time, a human being, was totally separate from their idea of God. For a mortal to say otherwise undermined their whole belief system. And when you mess with belief systems, it is historically correct to say that violence often erupts. I have read the entire Bible, and while some of it seems outrageous to me personally, I always remember, that this book was put together by men, and some had hidden agendas. But, it is also full of wisdom, and offers rules of conduct, and ways of living that are just as correct today, as they were 2000 years ago. To me all that the Bible is about is first, the history of the Hebrews, and secondly, a story of man's relationship to the Creator, and how we became what we are, and also how to re-enter into a state that we were once in. It contains truths, and it contains garbage. It is up to the chosen to sift through this ancient text for the truths, and realize the parts that were put in by other people. It is rather interesting to me that all of the major religions, teach basically the same thing. The means of achieving salvation is what varies, and has caused millions of fruitless deaths. Now that is what upsets me about organized religions. Regards, Fedora

Follow Ups:

Re: Interpretation perhaps? Shawnkara 20:35:03 6/20/2001 (4)
- Re: Interpretation perhaps? Fedora 22:15:39 6/20/2001 (3)
  - "Gamora" or "Gormorrah"? Fall Guy 22:31:13 6/20/2001 (2)
    - I believe Fedora's spelling is the correct one. For every one thing I learn, I forget at least two. I think my brain is full. (nm) Shawnkara 01:36:31 6/21/2001 (1)
      - He was close, very close. (nm) Fall Guy 14:30:24 6/21/2001 (0)
I really ought to just stay the hell out of this, but-- Operator Jake 20:25:17 6/20/2001 (0)

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: : Try holding the Bilbe (old and new testament both) up to the standards of logic. And for that matter, history. The Bilbe will have you believe that the Romans' occupation of Jerusalem was a passive/agressive occupation. It was the Church who ordered the death of Christ and the iron fist of Pontias Pillate readily obliged? Show me one other instance in history, in FACT, when Roman occupation of anything was any where near passive. The cave in which the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, along with countless other relics, was the result of Jerusalem's people concealing their valuables as the Romans descended upon them. The New Testament is a colletion of four accounts; those of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. All were written from four points of view. All were written, as is any story that wishes to glorify a thing, with great embelishment. All were written fifteen to twenty years after the fact. And all were written DURING ROMAN OCCUPATION. Who would you blame? The tyrants reading over your shoulder as you wrote? I think not. The Bible is written (where faith is concerned) in Q&A format. Compare the Bilbe to the FAQ page of this very site. You'll see a frightening resemblence. Action? Consequece. Take the book of Job. Why is it included? No, not because it really happened. The writers were clever enough to realize that if someone were really subjected to such physical, psychological and spiritual torture a revolt wolud surely insue when 'GOD' failed to appear and save the man. So, he endures this horror, faith unshaken, save for demanding a reason from God as he lay dying. And, he is given back all that was taken from him ten-fold. Sounds kinda like how income tax works, doesn't it? Now, when horrible attrocities are committed and God fails to save us, we have a more 'logical' answer; "God works in mysterious ways." If the book of Job were true, well, then that makes matters even worse. Satan was ALLOWED to torture Job by GOD himself when Satan questioned mans' faith in God. It's an appalling display of cruelty and arrogance on the part of your 'God'.

: 
:     I do see your point very clearly, and must admit, that I have had serious questions concerning my belief system. But, at some point in time, I stopped understanding the Bible in a literal sense. Anathema to logical thinking, but logic can be a religion in itself. Scientific understanding seems to be almost always tenative, until a more correct understanding is assumed to be "fact". That is the history of science in a nutshell. As far as holding the Bible up to history, well, you must have forgotten, that the Old Testament is in fact, the history of the Hebrews. We basically have no other source of their history. To say that this history is pure fiction, is quite a leap to take. Especially since certain sites have been discovered that the OT referred to in it's ficticious tales. The logic that you speak of is what the Greeks contributed to western culture. That this logic bastardized ancient texts, and our understanding of them, may be more to the point, and helps contribute to your misunderstanding of the Bible. Supposedly, the Church, as you call it, wasn't a church. What Jesus was up against was the established religion of the Hebrews, and when he said that who sees him, sees the Father, well, all hell broke loose. To the Hebrews of that time, a human being, was totally separate from their idea of God. For a mortal to say otherwise undermined their whole belief system. And when you mess with belief systems, it is historically correct to say that violence often erupts. I have read the entire Bible, and while some of it seems outrageous to me personally, I always remember, that this book was put together by men, and some had hidden agendas. But, it is also full of wisdom, and offers rules of conduct, and ways of living that are just as correct today, as they were 2000 years ago. To me all that the Bible is about is first, the history of the Hebrews, and secondly, a story of man's relationship to the Creator, and how we became what we are, and also how to re-enter into a state that we were once in. It contains truths, and it contains garbage. It is up to the chosen to sift through this ancient text for the truths, and realize the parts that were put in by other people. It is rather interesting to me that all of the major religions, teach basically the same thing. The means of achieving salvation is what varies, and has caused millions of fruitless deaths. Now that is what upsets me about organized religions. Regards, Fedora

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