Oh, come on now.

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Posted by Michaelson from leospace144.utsi.edu on June 21, 2001 at 13:31:31:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks for the kind words posted by the ART kritik on June 21, 2001 at 12:00:57:

You were doing great until you wrote that last line. You then fell completely off the wagon. I agree with what you say to a point, but bear in mind that you ONLY have a valid point if we were speaking of contests where the participants paid an entry fee along with their entry. It would also pertain to contests being held by a "club" where people pay membership fees, and through that membership have paid for the right to participate in such a contest. This forum is neither. No one pays for use, no one pays fees for the little contests that have been held. All contests were conducted on individuals own personal time and efforts, and all prizes and shipments paid out of our own pockets with no stipulations other than the participants to follow the rules as set forth before what ever contest was held. That's where the line should be drawn in terms of dialogue. Disappointment in not winning is one thing, but the spirit in which the contest was held for in the first place is completely forgotten and lost in the "bitching" (just to use the term brought into this "dialogue") that seems to always follow. If the last line of your post is what you really feel, then I'm afraid I have lost a bit of respect I've had for your postings to date, as they seemed to be on target and well thought out. Adam has been VERY involved and concerned with the fair handling of every contest he and Micah have done to date. He did not deserve that last shot at all. Michaelson

: I certainly understand Michaelson's stance on judging- people in the forum can be harsh at times. This results from the Art Contests being a fairly new format on Indyfan. It is still in the stages of learning what works and what doesn't. In my opinion, more judges results in a more democratic system. If it was possible, I would suggest that everyone gets to vote for the top rankings (this would have to be monitored in some way so that each member only votes once of course) and then you would have the most democratic format of all.

: : Thanks for your kind comments. And yes, it is frustrating when you work so hard -- donating time and items worth money -- only to have others blast your judgement and insist it should be done their way.

: "Blast your judgement"? Come on now. Don't exaggerate. Many people don't take criticism well, but I think it is worth it because it gets people talking about the art, and forces them to defend their opinions of it. If anything, I think that is one way that art helps individuals grow personally, rather than merely look at the pretty pictures and not express anything about it.

: : I'm open to other people's views, of course, and don't mind a difference in opinion. But when someone claims that my judgement is unworthy and the "system" needs to be changed, well, that really pisses me off. Not to sound undiplomatic, but if others think they can do better, then THEY should host a contest with prizes and show the rest of us the error of our ways. (It's interesting to note that it's not a lot of people who are bitching about the art contest, but a handful of people who are bitching a lot, over and over again...)

: Did I say your judgement is unworthy? Did I question your qualifications as an artist or a judge? Did I ever claim the system "needs" to be changed? I merely made suggestions that I thought would help to make this a more democratic system in the future. And of course, Adam, you have the answer right on the money with your statement that THEY should host their own contest. That solves everything, so congratulations on your brilliant idea. And I would like to extend a warm expression of my gratitude for calling my opinions and my statments "bitching". I never said anything about the art or the judges in an inappropriate or unprofessional manner, and yet I am accused of bitching? I am appalled at how immature your reaction is to criticism.

: : Regarding your jacket contest, I myself entered and didn't even make the finalists -- I might have been a wee bit disappointed, but that doesn't give me the right to bitch about it.

: You are right. Contestants shouldn't bitch about the judgements made in a contest. But they have every right to begin a dialogue and form their own opinions of the judgements made, so long as they do so professionally and without insulting people. But apparently, in the Nazi regime world that you live, all discussion after the fact is bitching and I guess I am guilty of treason, Mein Fuhrer.




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