THE JACKET AND THE ONGOING DEBATE, MY TWO CENTS(long post)

Posted by SWilliam from proxy2-clt.ratedg.com on July 29, 2001 at 19:31:33:

I've had my Raiders Wested Lambskin jacket for about a year and 5 months now and I've been totally happy with it. I've been "away" from the forum for about a year now (if you go way back in the archives you'll find me there), and didn't realize what has unfolded in the past 1/2 to full year when it comes to the jacket. I saw the whole ordeal about the "expedition jacket" and got skeptical... how could someone put down Peter's jacket, especially the three most trusted authorities on the jacket, Lee Kepler, Michaelson, and Patterson. I studied the subject myself by looking over photos and watching the movies, pausing almost every jacket scene in the trilogy (actually it is very difficult to see the details that have been argued about but they are there). As a perfectionist I could not believe I missed some of the details that were wrong on the jacket, all of which have been in front of my face all along.

The back panel: I saw this one as soon as I got my jacket (there is about an 1/8 of an inch gap on each side), but understood why the back panel did not go the who length of the Yoke (top portion of rear jacket). I've got pictures of myself standing beside the jacket in the Smithsonian, and saw that Fords jacket was a little smaller in size, and logically Peter had to cut some cost somewhere, its different to make 30 jackets for one movie instead of thousands for the fans. Those extra few inches add up in hide costs. If I'd been maybe the same size as Ford or smaller the back panel would have gone the whole length of the Yoke (for those of you who think you are the same size or smaller, you can get back to me on that one).

The side straps: This is what really got me. Even as I revisited the pictures of the Last Crusade Jacket in the Smithsonian I could even see there that the straps did not come out from the side pockets, they came out from the middle seam before the gusset. This makes sense, because it puts a lot of unwanted stress on the front pockets. I was never able to see the back of the jacket at the Smithsonian (they should put Indy's jacket in a round display so you can see all sides of it), but it is evident from the movie that the buckle strap attached to the back panels were attached on the outside (on top of the back panel) not inside like the "old" Wested.

The collar: with me this is not a big deal, because with all the photos I've seen from Raiders, and my jacket when it is on me, the collar looks very well proportioned. This is something that can be altered as well. Its easier to make something smaller when it comes to a garment than bigger.

The reason I am somewhat perplexed is that Peter gave us Certificates of Authenticity that said "This is to certify that this Raiders Jacket is an authentic reproduction being hand cut from THE ORIGINAL PATTERNS used for HARRISON FORD in the film RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK". Why state that if it is not true.

To counter balance my steaming , Peter has said that they did make the jackets "new and unaltered" then handed them over to wardrobe. Maybe wardrobe made these changes because of the abuse they would get with stunts that Peter might not have forseen. My mother-in-law, who is a tailor, had a long discussion with me about how some actors and actresses are "sewed into" their costumes at times, how many cosmetic changes are made to a garment when the actor gets into the costume, and the fact that clothing in movies don't have to pass "real world" uses. The straps could have easily been changed, and made stronger by wardrobe (Berman & Nathans or by the on-sight wardrobe), and like I said before the back panel would have been the whole length of the yoke considering only 30 were made for the first movie, this would not have needed changing.

Its good to know that Peter Botwright has done some "fixes", considering he's now got competition from the "expedition jacket" over at flight suits. I don't want another jacket, I am still happy with mine. I will change the side strap configuration though and my mother-in-law and I are looking into that now.

Regards

SWilliam

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This is/was very informative! Thank you! (nm) Indiana Pete 01:48:21 7/30/2001 (0)

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: I've had my Raiders Wested Lambskin jacket for about a year and 5 months now and I've been totally happy with it.    I've been "away" from the forum for about a year now (if you go way back in the archives you'll find me there), and didn't realize what has unfolded in the past 1/2 to full year when it comes to the jacket.  I saw the whole ordeal about the "expedition jacket" and got skeptical... how could someone put down Peter's jacket, especially the three most trusted authorities on the jacket,  Lee Kepler, Michaelson, and Patterson.   I studied the subject myself  by looking over photos and watching the movies, pausing almost every jacket scene in the trilogy (actually it is very difficult to see the details that have been argued about but they are there).   As a perfectionist I could not believe I missed some of the details that were wrong on the jacket, all of which have been in front of my face all along.

: The back panel:  I saw this one as soon as I got my jacket (there is about an 1/8 of an inch gap on each side), but understood why the back panel did not go the who length of the Yoke (top portion of rear jacket).   I've got pictures of myself standing beside the jacket in the Smithsonian, and saw that Fords jacket was a little smaller in size, and logically Peter had to cut some cost somewhere, its different to make 30 jackets for one movie instead of thousands for the fans.  Those extra few inches add up in hide costs.   If I'd been maybe the same size as Ford or smaller the back panel would have gone the whole length of the Yoke (for those of you who think you are the same size or smaller, you can get back to me on that one).

: The side straps:  This is what really got me.  Even as I revisited the pictures of the Last Crusade Jacket in the Smithsonian I could even see there that the straps did not come out from the side pockets, they came out from the middle seam before the gusset.   This makes sense, because it puts a lot of unwanted stress on the front pockets.   I was never able to see the back of the jacket at the Smithsonian (they should put Indy's jacket in a round display so you can see all sides of it), but it is evident from the movie that the  buckle strap attached to the back panels were attached on the outside (on top of the back panel) not inside like the "old" Wested.

: The collar:  with me this is not a big deal, because with all the photos I've seen from Raiders, and my jacket when it is on me, the collar looks very well proportioned.  This is something that can be altered as well.   Its easier to make something smaller when it comes to a garment than bigger.

: The reason I am somewhat perplexed is that Peter gave us Certificates of Authenticity that said "This is to certify that this Raiders Jacket is an authentic reproduction being hand cut from THE ORIGINAL PATTERNS used for HARRISON FORD in the film RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK".   Why state that if it is not true.

: To counter balance my steaming , Peter has said that they did make the jackets "new and unaltered" then handed them over to wardrobe.   Maybe wardrobe made these changes because of the abuse they would get with stunts that Peter might not have forseen.  My mother-in-law, who is a tailor, had a long discussion with me about how some actors and actresses are "sewed into" their costumes at times,  how many cosmetic changes are made to a garment when the actor gets into the costume, and the fact that clothing in movies don't have to pass "real world" uses.  The straps could have easily been changed, and made stronger by wardrobe (Berman & Nathans or by the on-sight wardrobe), and like I said before the back panel would have been the whole length of the yoke considering only 30 were made for the first movie, this would not have needed changing.

: Its good to know that Peter Botwright has done some "fixes", considering he's now got competition from the "expedition jacket" over at flight suits.  I don't want another jacket, I am still happy with mine.  I will change the side strap configuration though and my mother-in-law and I are looking into that now.

: Regards

: SWilliam

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