Well...

Posted by India Jones from 141.11.234.1 on August 17, 2001 at 11:44:08:

In Reply to: I've heard this kind of response ALL too often... posted by Patterson on August 17, 2001 at 11:13:18:

After reading Peter's response, it does not seem that an existing prototype that had already been made and dubbed "the jacket" was taken to Berman's and then Wested for "execution" as stated in the FAQ (unless I misunderstood). That is exactly what I suggested in one of the Scenarii in my post, that indeed it was a collaboration. The "shell" of the prototype jacket apparently came from Peter (the James Dean type) and several other jackets were shown from which the details were picked (side pleats/straps, cargo pockets, etc). I agree the final choices came from Nadoolman, but she didn't just invent the pattern herself. This is also not what I would call "execution" on the part of Berman's or Peter. If this is the way it happened, then others did have some artistic input. But then again, this is just another side of the story....
Again, I'm not trying to minimize Nadoolman's role, MK's credentials, or your hard work, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the facts. Its also too bad that you took my post as an insult. I guess I can undertand that this stuff is hard to dig up, and believe me it is appreciated (as I stated below). But by questioning its validity don't think that people are criticizing. Fans like me just want to understand all the facts. This is how we make progress on such topics IMHO. Keep up the good work. It seems like we're getting to the end of this murcky subject.

Regards,
IJ

: This story comes first hand from the person given screen credit. The same person was handpicked by Steven Spielberg for the express purpose of creating this character. She was in fact one of only a very few people hand picked from the US to be part of this core team, and was given a great deal of responsibility and visibility. Peter modified one of his patterns, but it was at her direction with respect to her specific details and requirements - kinda says to me it's her design with Peter’s execution. I'm not minimizing Peter's place here - in fact, given the responsibility the lady had and the number of jackets she rejected, I think it is high praise that his was the final jacket used. He satisfied some people who were quite used to, and very comfortable with, rejecting finished products. Read Peter's response - he recalls his part of the story pretty much as we've stated it, and has elaborated with some really good stuff which will make it to the FAQ as well.

: Don't take this the wrong way, but your response smells a little of "don't rock the world I think I understand with better information." I've personally taken a lot of crap during the last year due to facts I've personally brought to light - using my personal resources (financial and non-financial) to do so. MK has professional connections, which allows him to have access to people and information which some of us can only dream of. He also uses his own time and money to do this stuff for the love of the hobby. Your post is an insult, though I have a feeling it was not intended to be so...

: Patterson

Follow Ups:

Good points - a question of semantics? Patterson 12:19:56 8/17/2001 (10)
- Hey Patterson, do you cook? Fall Guy 13:19:39 8/17/2001 (6)
  - Yes, I do... Patterson 15:35:11 8/17/2001 (5)
    - And all you need is a can opener and a microwave. ;) Fall Guy 20:12:59 8/17/2001 (4)
      - I always cook from scratch - avoids copyright infringement problems (grin)(nm) Patterson 23:25:37 8/18/2001 (1)
        
        You keep livestock?. ;) Fall Guy 23:38:26 8/18/2001 (0)
      - But what if you grate the cheese yourself?! The Big Red 23:51:59 8/17/2001 (1)
        
        You have the taken the first step. (nm) Fall Guy 00:08:18 8/18/2001 (0)
- Maybe, maybe not... India Jones 12:53:24 8/17/2001 (2)
  - Yes, but... Patterson 15:37:38 8/17/2001 (1)
    - Or did she... India Jones 10:52:52 8/20/2001 (0)

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: After reading Peter's response, it does not seem that an existing prototype that had already been made and dubbed "the jacket" was taken to Berman's and then Wested for "execution" as stated in the FAQ (unless I misunderstood).  That is exactly what I suggested in one of the Scenarii in my post, that indeed it was a collaboration.  The "shell" of the prototype jacket apparently came from Peter (the James Dean type) and several other jackets were shown from which the details were picked (side pleats/straps, cargo pockets, etc).  I agree the final choices came from Nadoolman, but she didn't just invent the pattern herself.  This is also not what I would call "execution" on the part of Berman's or Peter.  If this is the way it happened, then others did have some artistic input.  But then again, this is just another side of the story....
: Again, I'm not trying to minimize Nadoolman's role, MK's credentials, or your hard work, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the facts.  Its also too bad that you took my post as an insult.  I guess I can undertand that this stuff is hard to dig up, and believe me it is appreciated (as I stated below).  But by questioning its validity don't think that people are criticizing.  Fans like me just want to understand all the facts.  This is how we make progress on such topics IMHO.  Keep up the good work.  It seems like we're getting to the end of this murcky subject.

: Regards,
: IJ

: 
: : This story comes first hand from the person given screen credit.  The same person was handpicked by Steven Spielberg for the express purpose of creating this character.  She was in fact one of only a very few people hand picked from the US to be part of this core team, and was given a great deal of responsibility and visibility.  Peter modified one of his patterns, but it was at her direction with respect to her specific details and requirements - kinda says to me it's her design with Peter’s execution.  I'm not minimizing Peter's place here - in fact, given the responsibility the lady had and the number of jackets she rejected, I think it is high praise that his was the final jacket used.  He satisfied some people who were quite used to, and very comfortable with, rejecting finished products.  Read Peter's response - he recalls his part of the story pretty much as we've stated it, and has elaborated with some really good stuff which will make it to the FAQ as well.

: : Don't take this the wrong way, but your response smells a little of "don't rock the world I think I understand with better information."  I've personally taken a lot of crap during the last year due to facts I've personally brought to light - using my personal resources (financial and non-financial) to do so.  MK has professional connections, which allows him to have access to people and information which some of us can only dream of.  He also uses his own time and money to do this stuff for the love of the hobby.  Your post is an insult, though I have a feeling it was not intended to be so...

: : Patterson

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