Yep, it was no B-picture

Posted by Michaelson from eeespace208.utsi.edu (150.182.24.208) on Monday, February 25, 2002 at 12:46pm :

In Reply to: Hell yeah, after Close Encounters, Raiders WAS a B- movie posted by Forrestal from r200-40-84-174.adsl.anteldata.net.uy (200.40.84.174) on Friday, February 22, 2002 at 11:13pm :

It was only to emulate the pacing of the old B-formula. As to the sword fighting scene story, it's been pretty consistant, and is even mentioned at length in the Making of Raiders paperback that came out at the same time the movie did, but like other 'legends', I think the funniest one that keeps popping up is the LC story regarding Ford being able to keep his fedora on by stapling it to his head. He was clowning around for the 'docu' film crew and picked up an empty staple gun and acted like he was stapling his hat to his head. From that day I've read folks state that this was what actually happened. After a while you give up trying to 'correct' the story. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

: I was kidding (or maybe I was just delirious) and I thought this was obvious: A glib movie-maker like Spielberg who caters foremost to mass appeal would never get caught by using something as disruptive as before-mentioned and alleged alienation effect.

: As I said, I was kidding - to a point:

: Raiders was never meant to be a B picture. This film had state of the art SF/X in '81 - honored with an Academy Award! B pictures do not get nominated, especially not for crappy effects.
: This is not to say that the film-makers did not cut corners in achieving (for back then still) spectacular effects, but it clearly shows that Raiders was not meant to be a B picture. There may have been some "good-enough mentality" when shooting scenes in less takes than usually, but in Spielberg's ( glib/crafty/skilled - whatever) hands this method of shooting became a style in itself. Raiders is dynamic and fresh, not to say a little sketchy - and it works wonderfully.
: And yes, we all have heard the story of Ford who'd had the runs for 5 weeks straight, decided to take a shortcut in wasting the swordsman. But isn't that tale really apocryphal? I bet even Ford himself believes it by now.
: Ha!

: -Forrestal, going out on his last limb

:
: : Odd, according to the 'Making of Raiders' video, Spielberg states that making this kind of movie was like painting a floor, and finding yourself painted into a corner. The trick was trying to tip toe back through the wet paint and hope no one NOTICEED the footprints or mistakes. The shooting of the 'Arab' scene was one that Ford thought of at the last minute as he was sick as a dog, and didn't want to finish a planned fight scene. Spielberg agreed, and the 'shot' stood. It was loved by the audience as during that particular time period we had just ended the hostage crisis in Iran, and we're all that happy with the situation. This particular scene reflected what the on the street U.S. citizen felt at the time, and cheered Indy in the action. Based on all the materials written and made in documentary style films during that time period, they considered this process as serious as the making of any of their other movies and they just experienced the usual amount of 'goofs'. We're just seeing and discussing them at length after viewing the films for the past 20+ years. Raiders was never intended to be considered rocket science, or thought provoking. It was based on the old B-film formula, and that's what Lucas wanted to see on the big screen (also seen and discusses in the "making of Raider's" documentary, 1981) Regards. Michaelson

:
: : : All we need is a different spin on this:

: : : I see the "Shooting-the-brown-skinned-Arab scene" as a Verfremdungseffekt (have I lost everybody but you and graml now?), used by Steven Spielberg to destroy the viewer's impression that what happens on the screen is real life. Instead it underscores the fact that this is fiction, and this destruction of illusion creates a critical distance between the viewer and the fictional event.
: : : The same goes for things that are usually seen as "goofs": The snake's reflection in the glass, Indy's hat brim squeezed against the glass, Marion's hair stuck in her face, lighting equipment reflecting in the flying wing's cockpit, etc. All these "errors" just go to show that we are looking not at reality! Get the hint, people: Spielberg wanted you to notice these things!
: : : So you say the alienatien effect was unintended and was an accidental and common by-product of movie making? Maybe so, but what does it matter? It still goes to show you that it's all fiction (and I have come to believe that quite a few people forget that when watching movies).

: : : -Forrestal, feeling rotten

: : : PS: Now on to getting a fictional jacket that has different attributes in almost every single shot.
: : : PPS: Or maybe I'll read some pinko Brecht.

: : :

Indygear

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: It was only to emulate the pacing of the old B-formula. As to the sword fighting scene story, it's been pretty consistant, and is even mentioned at length in the Making of Raiders paperback that came out at the same time the movie did, but like other 'legends', I think the funniest one that keeps popping up is the LC story regarding Ford being able to keep his fedora on by stapling it to his head. He was clowning around for the 'docu' film crew and picked up an empty staple gun and acted like he was stapling his hat to his head. From that day I've read folks state that this was what actually happened. After a while you give up trying to 'correct' the story. (grins) Regards. Michaelson : : I was kidding (or maybe I was just delirious) and I thought this was obvious: A glib movie-maker like Spielberg who caters foremost to mass appeal would never get caught by using something as disruptive as before-mentioned and alleged alienation effect. : : As I said, I was kidding - to a point: : : Raiders was never meant to be a B picture. This film had state of the art SF/X in '81 - honored with an Academy Award! B pictures do not get nominated, especially not for crappy effects. : : This is not to say that the film-makers did not cut corners in achieving (for back then still) spectacular effects, but it clearly shows that Raiders was not meant to be a B picture. There may have been some "good-enough mentality" when shooting scenes in less takes than usually, but in Spielberg's ( glib/crafty/skilled - whatever) hands this method of shooting became a style in itself. Raiders is dynamic and fresh, not to say a little sketchy - and it works wonderfully. : : And yes, we all have heard the story of Ford who'd had the runs for 5 weeks straight, decided to take a shortcut in wasting the swordsman. But isn't that tale really apocryphal? I bet even Ford himself believes it by now. : : Ha! : : -Forrestal, going out on his last limb : : : : : Odd, according to the 'Making of Raiders' video, Spielberg states that making this kind of movie was like painting a floor, and finding yourself painted into a corner. The trick was trying to tip toe back through the wet paint and hope no one NOTICEED the footprints or mistakes. The shooting of the 'Arab' scene was one that Ford thought of at the last minute as he was sick as a dog, and didn't want to finish a planned fight scene. Spielberg agreed, and the 'shot' stood. It was loved by the audience as during that particular time period we had just ended the hostage crisis in Iran, and we're all that happy with the situation. This particular scene reflected what the on the street U.S. citizen felt at the time, and cheered Indy in the action. Based on all the materials written and made in documentary style films during that time period, they considered this process as serious as the making of any of their other movies and they just experienced the usual amount of 'goofs'. We're just seeing and discussing them at length after viewing the films for the past 20+ years. Raiders was never intended to be considered rocket science, or thought provoking. It was based on the old B-film formula, and that's what Lucas wanted to see on the big screen (also seen and discusses in the "making of Raider's" documentary, 1981) Regards. Michaelson : : : : : : All we need is a different spin on this: : : : : I see the "Shooting-the-brown-skinned-Arab scene" as a Verfremdungseffekt (have I lost everybody but you and graml now?), used by Steven Spielberg to destroy the viewer's impression that what happens on the screen is real life. Instead it underscores the fact that this is fiction, and this destruction of illusion creates a critical distance between the viewer and the fictional event. : : : : The same goes for things that are usually seen as "goofs": The snake's reflection in the glass, Indy's hat brim squeezed against the glass, Marion's hair stuck in her face, lighting equipment reflecting in the flying wing's cockpit, etc. All these "errors" just go to show that we are looking not at reality! Get the hint, people: Spielberg wanted you to notice these things! : : : : So you say the alienatien effect was unintended and was an accidental and common by-product of movie making? Maybe so, but what does it matter? It still goes to show you that it's all fiction (and I have come to believe that quite a few people forget that when watching movies). : : : : -Forrestal, feeling rotten : : : : PS: Now on to getting a fictional jacket that has different attributes in almost every single shot. : : : : PPS: Or maybe I'll read some pinko Brecht. : : : : :

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