Good point....

Posted by Fedora from 26-41.colcpe.cableone.net (24.116.26.41) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 at 5:08pm :

In Reply to: Uninvited (again), please allow an outsider to throw four cents in. posted by Operator Jake from 206-13-102-132.ded.pacbell.net (206.13.102.132) on Sunday, April 07, 2002 at 3:48pm :

: Two for one side and two for the other.
: Okay, I'll start for Brett. The Klan was formed shortly after the war, and although much of the credit goes to Confederate hero General Forrest, it was quite a lot of southerners. The main intent at the time wasn't the spread of hate, but it was a political action intended to scare republicans from voting. This just happened to include terrorizing the newly-freed African-Americans.
: The Klan as we know it reappeared sometime in the 1910's, presumably during the first World War, and then sort of disappeared again. They came back again in full swing after WWII, waving around "the stars and bars" for the first time in one of their marches.
: Blame these pr*cks for the misuse.
: For this reason, I do have to agree with you. I'm not a big fan of what the flag has been made to represent, in that sense. I resent the fact that it has been embraced by hate groups, and at the risk of being passionate again, I still feel that the Pope would forgive me when I say that I don't believe there is such a thing as "overkill" for some people.
: To Fedora, and I hope that it won't change your feelings toward me any, I was born as yankee as they come. But I know plenty of folks who fly the flag for the right reasons, and I respect that. My mother is an American Civil War fanatic, and has always been sort of a "closet Confederate." When she first joined a re-enactment group a few years back, she put herself in with the First Virginia volunteers.
: As she said, great folks, but rascist as all get-out. She left shortly thereafter, and has settled down with a Pennsylvania medical battery.
: Okay, I guess that was a bad example. But from my time in service, I've met countless big-hearted southern boys who love to sport their bumper stickers and shirts that declare the flag as "Heritage, not Hatred."
: And they've got all my love and support on that one.
: Go easy on eachother. We're here for Indy, remember?
: Let's be careful out there.

.....and you are correct. I(we), have a bad habit of getting off the subject, but in one sense, it is on topic if you consider all the historical events that young Indy introduced a generation of young(and old)folks to. The Confederate flag stirs lots of emotions in different people. I have friends that are into the reinactment thing, and while I have to admit, there are all sorts of elements involved, many of these men will play on either side, Confederate or Union. My friend is one of those sorts. My ancestors fought in that war, and to me the flag represents them, and blood is thicker than water. My ancestors never owned slaves, in fact, there lot wasn't that much better than that of the slaves, being poor farmers. But, they were free, and this is all the difference in the world. When the call came to defend the South, and that is the way many poor uneducated folk saw this event, they rose to the call, the same as the folks in the Union. They were defending themselves, and their property, and were far removed from the politics of that era. That the South lost the war was the best outcome of this event. I am a Southerner, but I thank God that we didn't prevail. When I see the Confederate flag, I get a lump in my throat,as it represents the pride of Southern people. It is who we were, it is who we are. I can tell you, it is so much different now race wise, than from when I grew up, in the 50's. Racism, and separatism can't be defended, no matter how eloquent the argument. To many the flag represents slavery, the KKK, hatred, etc. If you want to hang that meaning onto it, go ahead, but be aware that not everyone feels the same way. Some people are offended by this flag, but to me they need to view it as a reminder of how far we have come in our journey. Like it or not, it is our history as a nation. What's the old saying about forgetting hisory? And, OJ, believe it or not, I really like everyone here, and our beliefs and opinions are God given rights. I don't dislike anyone because they don't agree with old Fedora. Actually, I prefer it that way. We all have one thing in common, we all like the Indy films. Enough said. best regards, to all Fedora

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: : Two for one side and two for the other. : : Okay, I'll start for Brett. The Klan was formed shortly after the war, and although much of the credit goes to Confederate hero General Forrest, it was quite a lot of southerners. The main intent at the time wasn't the spread of hate, but it was a political action intended to scare republicans from voting. This just happened to include terrorizing the newly-freed African-Americans. : : The Klan as we know it reappeared sometime in the 1910's, presumably during the first World War, and then sort of disappeared again. They came back again in full swing after WWII, waving around "the stars and bars" for the first time in one of their marches. : : Blame these pr*cks for the misuse. : : For this reason, I do have to agree with you. I'm not a big fan of what the flag has been made to represent, in that sense. I resent the fact that it has been embraced by hate groups, and at the risk of being passionate again, I still feel that the Pope would forgive me when I say that I don't believe there is such a thing as "overkill" for some people. : : To Fedora, and I hope that it won't change your feelings toward me any, I was born as yankee as they come. But I know plenty of folks who fly the flag for the right reasons, and I respect that. My mother is an American Civil War fanatic, and has always been sort of a "closet Confederate." When she first joined a re-enactment group a few years back, she put herself in with the First Virginia volunteers. : : As she said, great folks, but rascist as all get-out. She left shortly thereafter, and has settled down with a Pennsylvania medical battery. : : Okay, I guess that was a bad example. But from my time in service, I've met countless big-hearted southern boys who love to sport their bumper stickers and shirts that declare the flag as "Heritage, not Hatred." : : And they've got all my love and support on that one. : : Go easy on eachother. We're here for Indy, remember? : : Let's be careful out there. : .....and you are correct. I(we), have a bad habit of getting off the subject, but in one sense, it is on topic if you consider all the historical events that young Indy introduced a generation of young(and old)folks to. The Confederate flag stirs lots of emotions in different people. I have friends that are into the reinactment thing, and while I have to admit, there are all sorts of elements involved, many of these men will play on either side, Confederate or Union. My friend is one of those sorts. My ancestors fought in that war, and to me the flag represents them, and blood is thicker than water. My ancestors never owned slaves, in fact, there lot wasn't that much better than that of the slaves, being poor farmers. But, they were free, and this is all the difference in the world. When the call came to defend the South, and that is the way many poor uneducated folk saw this event, they rose to the call, the same as the folks in the Union. They were defending themselves, and their property, and were far removed from the politics of that era. That the South lost the war was the best outcome of this event. I am a Southerner, but I thank God that we didn't prevail. When I see the Confederate flag, I get a lump in my throat,as it represents the pride of Southern people. It is who we were, it is who we are. I can tell you, it is so much different now race wise, than from when I grew up, in the 50's. Racism, and separatism can't be defended, no matter how eloquent the argument. To many the flag represents slavery, the KKK, hatred, etc. If you want to hang that meaning onto it, go ahead, but be aware that not everyone feels the same way. Some people are offended by this flag, but to me they need to view it as a reminder of how far we have come in our journey. Like it or not, it is our history as a nation. What's the old saying about forgetting hisory? And, OJ, believe it or not, I really like everyone here, and our beliefs and opinions are God given rights. I don't dislike anyone because they don't agree with old Fedora. Actually, I prefer it that way. We all have one thing in common, we all like the Indy films. Enough said. best regards, to all Fedora

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