Your words, not mine.

Posted by Fall Guy from pool0088.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (209.179.198.88) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 at 9:35pm :

In Reply to: So Indy is a thug..... posted by Fedora from 26-21.colcpe.cableone.net (24.116.26.21) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 at 6:57pm :

: : : : : : Fedora from LC may have had some soldier-of-fortune charm to some, but he didn't come across as a "good guy", but as a hired hand instead. All he really did was stand around and utter one "deep" line, which seemed rooted in some 19th century cowboy ethics. From what I understand, Abner Ravenwood was an honorable fellow and not a wad-chewing demimonde.
: : : : : : FG

: : : : : : : I just read something on another board about the speculation that Fedora in Last Crusade was Abner Ravenwood, Marion's father.

: : : : : : : Does anyone know any more about this? Where did this idea come from; the novels, perhaps?

: : : : : : : I have always liked his character, and this puts him in a different perspective for me.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : :

: : : : : ....and what part of that scene portrays him as such? All that I saw was an opportunist, that had honor enough not to kill anyone. He just wanted the cross back, and even went to the authorities to obtain it. Doesn't sound thuggy to me. Go watch the film again. Fedora

: : : :
: : : : Clearly, the local sheriff had been greased by the evil Panama hat guy. Can't you tell?
: : : : Opportunism is defined as the practice of taking advantage of opportunities and circumstances with little regard for principles or ultimate consequences. That doesn't sound ethical to me.
: : : : FG
: : : : PS: "Honor"? The honor of thieves?
: : : : :

: : : ....by Ford himself who had insight into the character. I guess that brush with Fedora had a lasting affect on him. Looks like both were rascals, but thugs seems a bit harsh. IMHO. Fedora

: : Well, you are not talking about Fedora in LC anymore, are you? I thought we were talking about Fedora's character, not Indy's.
: : Anyway, how many times have I (and others) said that Indy's exploits were questionable at least by today's standards? It's all in the vault, dude.
: : FG
: : PS: Do you think Indy chases little kids who say "It belongs in a museum"?
: : :
: : :

:
: :

: ....admit it . That Indy was a grave robber is no worse than what Fedora was doing. But, Fedora gets the name thug hung on him by the likes of you. That was my point. I was just pointing this out to show you that you tend to use words the way some folks use religion. Not much different from them FG. I stand by my original thought. Fedora was no thug. Fedora

Don't attempt twisting words around, you'll just hang yourself eventually. The topic was Fedora's character. A guy who surrounds himself with a bunch of mindlessly yee-hawing thugs* (Watch the opening sequence again, Fedora. Doesn't one of those other THUGS try to stab Indy?) is not better than they are. He's still a thug. Look up the definiton for thug if you don't believe me. I'm tired of reading the dictionary to you.
As for Indy, if you really want to go there (since we are talking about LC, the only movie in which Fedora was a character), he was a somewhat shady character in Raiders, but not in ToD and especially not in LC. Even in Raiders, Indy upholds certain standards.
If I had to make a simple comparison that won't overtax your mind, then I'd say that the Fedora character is somewhere between between Indy and Belloq. Quiet frankly, Belloq seems a lot smarter than Fedora. Fedora just stands around all the time.
Anyway, Indy's ultimate goal is to to make sure that the artifact, be it the Ark, the Sankara stones, or the Grail, is safe from the likes of Fedora, Panama Hat, Belloq and Donovan.
If Indy were a thug he'd keep the Sankara stones, he would let Willie fall to her (SCREAMING) death, he'd leave Marion behind and he'd blow the Ark to bits. Etc and so forth.
FG
PS: Stop stirring trouble, Steve. If you want to make it personal, do it somewhere else. :p
:
:

Follow Ups:

Not personal, just avid discussion.... - Fedora 8:23am 04/26/2002

Don't flatter yourself. - Fall Guy 1:31pm 04/26/2002

Rascals are good, thugs are evil. (nm) - Fedora 7:41pm 04/26/2002

My two cents - JuggleEwok 1:26pm 04/26/2002

How can you say that? - Fall Guy 1:37pm 04/26/2002

GAH! - Fall Guy 1:59pm 04/26/2002

No, you meant - JuggleEwok 2:02pm 04/26/2002

That's the crux with Michael Crichton. - Fall Guy 2:39pm 04/26/2002

Boy who needs the ToD Dinner scene when we have this?(nm) - IndyCoil 11:20pm 04/25/2002

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: : : : : : : Fedora from LC may have had some soldier-of-fortune charm to some, but he didn't come across as a "good guy", but as a hired hand instead. All he really did was stand around and utter one "deep" line, which seemed rooted in some 19th century cowboy ethics. From what I understand, Abner Ravenwood was an honorable fellow and not a wad-chewing demimonde. : : : : : : : FG : : : : : : : : I just read something on another board about the speculation that Fedora in Last Crusade was Abner Ravenwood, Marion's father. : : : : : : : : Does anyone know any more about this? Where did this idea come from; the novels, perhaps? : : : : : : : : I have always liked his character, and this puts him in a different perspective for me. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ....and what part of that scene portrays him as such? All that I saw was an opportunist, that had honor enough not to kill anyone. He just wanted the cross back, and even went to the authorities to obtain it. Doesn't sound thuggy to me. Go watch the film again. Fedora : : : : : : : : : : Clearly, the local sheriff had been greased by the evil Panama hat guy. Can't you tell? : : : : : Opportunism is defined as the practice of taking advantage of opportunities and circumstances with little regard for principles or ultimate consequences. That doesn't sound ethical to me. : : : : : FG : : : : : PS: "Honor"? The honor of thieves? : : : : : : : : : : ....by Ford himself who had insight into the character. I guess that brush with Fedora had a lasting affect on him. Looks like both were rascals, but thugs seems a bit harsh. IMHO. Fedora : : : Well, you are not talking about Fedora in LC anymore, are you? I thought we were talking about Fedora's character, not Indy's. : : : Anyway, how many times have I (and others) said that Indy's exploits were questionable at least by today's standards? It's all in the vault, dude. : : : FG : : : PS: Do you think Indy chases little kids who say "It belongs in a museum"? : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ....admit it . That Indy was a grave robber is no worse than what Fedora was doing. But, Fedora gets the name thug hung on him by the likes of you. That was my point. I was just pointing this out to show you that you tend to use words the way some folks use religion. Not much different from them FG. I stand by my original thought. Fedora was no thug. Fedora : Don't attempt twisting words around, you'll just hang yourself eventually. The topic was Fedora's character. A guy who surrounds himself with a bunch of mindlessly yee-hawing thugs* (Watch the opening sequence again, Fedora. Doesn't one of those other THUGS try to stab Indy?) is not better than they are. He's still a thug. Look up the definiton for thug if you don't believe me. I'm tired of reading the dictionary to you. : As for Indy, if you really want to go there (since we are talking about LC, the only movie in which Fedora was a character), he was a somewhat shady character in Raiders, but not in ToD and especially not in LC. Even in Raiders, Indy upholds certain standards. : If I had to make a simple comparison that won't overtax your mind, then I'd say that the Fedora character is somewhere between between Indy and Belloq. Quiet frankly, Belloq seems a lot smarter than Fedora. Fedora just stands around all the time. : Anyway, Indy's ultimate goal is to to make sure that the artifact, be it the Ark, the Sankara stones, or the Grail, is safe from the likes of Fedora, Panama Hat, Belloq and Donovan. : If Indy were a thug he'd keep the Sankara stones, he would let Willie fall to her (SCREAMING) death, he'd leave Marion behind and he'd blow the Ark to bits. Etc and so forth. : FG : PS: Stop stirring trouble, Steve. If you want to make it personal, do it somewhere else. :p : : : :

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