Don't flatter yourself.

Posted by Fall Guy from pool0409.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (209.179.199.154) on Friday, April 26, 2002 at 1:31pm :

In Reply to: Not personal, just avid discussion.... posted by Fedora from 26-46.colcpe.cableone.net (24.116.26.46) on Friday, April 26, 2002 at 8:23am :

: : : : : : : : Fedora from LC may have had some soldier-of-fortune charm to some, but he didn't come across as a "good guy", but as a hired hand instead. All he really did was stand around and utter one "deep" line, which seemed rooted in some 19th century cowboy ethics. From what I understand, Abner Ravenwood was an honorable fellow and not a wad-chewing demimonde.
: : : : : : : : FG

: : : : : : : : : I just read something on another board about the speculation that Fedora in Last Crusade was Abner Ravenwood, Marion's father.

: : : : : : : : : Does anyone know any more about this? Where did this idea come from; the novels, perhaps?

: : : : : : : : : I have always liked his character, and this puts him in a different perspective for me.
: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : :

: : : : : : : ....and what part of that scene portrays him as such? All that I saw was an opportunist, that had honor enough not to kill anyone. He just wanted the cross back, and even went to the authorities to obtain it. Doesn't sound thuggy to me. Go watch the film again. Fedora

: : : : : :
: : : : : : Clearly, the local sheriff had been greased by the evil Panama hat guy. Can't you tell?
: : : : : : Opportunism is defined as the practice of taking advantage of opportunities and circumstances with little regard for principles or ultimate consequences. That doesn't sound ethical to me.
: : : : : : FG
: : : : : : PS: "Honor"? The honor of thieves?
: : : : : : :

: : : : : ....by Ford himself who had insight into the character. I guess that brush with Fedora had a lasting affect on him. Looks like both were rascals, but thugs seems a bit harsh. IMHO. Fedora

: : : : Well, you are not talking about Fedora in LC anymore, are you? I thought we were talking about Fedora's character, not Indy's.
: : : : Anyway, how many times have I (and others) said that Indy's exploits were questionable at least by today's standards? It's all in the vault, dude.
: : : : FG
: : : : PS: Do you think Indy chases little kids who say "It belongs in a museum"?
: : : : :
: : : : :

: : :
: : : :

: : : ....admit it . That Indy was a grave robber is no worse than what Fedora was doing. But, Fedora gets the name thug hung on him by the likes of you. That was my point. I was just pointing this out to show you that you tend to use words the way some folks use religion. Not much different from them FG. I stand by my original thought. Fedora was no thug. Fedora

: : Don't attempt twisting words around, you'll just hang yourself eventually. The topic was Fedora's character. A guy who surrounds himself with a bunch of mindlessly yee-hawing thugs* (Watch the opening sequence again, Fedora. Doesn't one of those other THUGS try to stab Indy?) is not better than they are. He's still a thug. Look up the definiton for thug if you don't believe me. I'm tired of reading the dictionary to you.
: : As for Indy, if you really want to go there (since we are talking about LC, the only movie in which Fedora was a character), he was a somewhat shady character in Raiders, but not in ToD and especially not in LC. Even in Raiders, Indy upholds certain standards.
: : If I had to make a simple comparison that won't overtax your mind, then I'd say that the Fedora character is somewhere between between Indy and Belloq. Quiet frankly, Belloq seems a lot smarter than Fedora. Fedora just stands around all the time.
: : Anyway, Indy's ultimate goal is to to make sure that the artifact, be it the Ark, the Sankara stones, or the Grail, is safe from the likes of Fedora, Panama Hat, Belloq and Donovan.
: : If Indy were a thug he'd keep the Sankara stones, he would let Willie fall to her (SCREAMING) death, he'd leave Marion behind and he'd blow the Ark to bits. Etc and so forth.
: : FG
: : PS: Stop stirring trouble, Steve. If you want to make it personal, do it somewhere else. :p
: : :
: : :

:
: ...I mean that, really. I enjoy all of this FG. And as long as you take the time to write like you do, I assume you derive some sort out of it as well. Thanks for your remarks. regards, Fedora

I don't reply to your posts for your benefit, but for the benefit of others. :p
Anyway, I find it interesting and revealing that you, the one who has over and over said that everything was black&white, was ready to proclaim Indy and Fedora "rascals" (your word). I'd love to know (if only I cared) to know where you draw the line between good and evil and how a "rascal" ranks.
I myself don't have a problem saying that Indy (in Raiders) is a somewhat shady character (his methods are a bit negligent) whose ultimate goals are noble (saving Marion, that rat Satipo , the Ark). After all, a flawed character is much more human and interesting than an untarnished (dare I say immaculate?) hero.
Moreover, I stand by my original thought, too. Fedora is a thug. On a gray scale he'd be a medium gray.
FG
:
:

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Rascals are good, thugs are evil. (nm) - Fedora 7:41pm 04/26/2002

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: : : : : : : : : Fedora from LC may have had some soldier-of-fortune charm to some, but he didn't come across as a "good guy", but as a hired hand instead. All he really did was stand around and utter one "deep" line, which seemed rooted in some 19th century cowboy ethics. From what I understand, Abner Ravenwood was an honorable fellow and not a wad-chewing demimonde. : : : : : : : : : FG : : : : : : : : : : I just read something on another board about the speculation that Fedora in Last Crusade was Abner Ravenwood, Marion's father. : : : : : : : : : : Does anyone know any more about this? Where did this idea come from; the novels, perhaps? : : : : : : : : : : I have always liked his character, and this puts him in a different perspective for me. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ....and what part of that scene portrays him as such? All that I saw was an opportunist, that had honor enough not to kill anyone. He just wanted the cross back, and even went to the authorities to obtain it. Doesn't sound thuggy to me. Go watch the film again. Fedora : : : : : : : : : : : : : : Clearly, the local sheriff had been greased by the evil Panama hat guy. Can't you tell? : : : : : : : Opportunism is defined as the practice of taking advantage of opportunities and circumstances with little regard for principles or ultimate consequences. That doesn't sound ethical to me. : : : : : : : FG : : : : : : : PS: "Honor"? The honor of thieves? : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ....by Ford himself who had insight into the character. I guess that brush with Fedora had a lasting affect on him. Looks like both were rascals, but thugs seems a bit harsh. IMHO. Fedora : : : : : Well, you are not talking about Fedora in LC anymore, are you? I thought we were talking about Fedora's character, not Indy's. : : : : : Anyway, how many times have I (and others) said that Indy's exploits were questionable at least by today's standards? It's all in the vault, dude. : : : : : FG : : : : : PS: Do you think Indy chases little kids who say "It belongs in a museum"? : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ....admit it . That Indy was a grave robber is no worse than what Fedora was doing. But, Fedora gets the name thug hung on him by the likes of you. That was my point. I was just pointing this out to show you that you tend to use words the way some folks use religion. Not much different from them FG. I stand by my original thought. Fedora was no thug. Fedora : : : Don't attempt twisting words around, you'll just hang yourself eventually. The topic was Fedora's character. A guy who surrounds himself with a bunch of mindlessly yee-hawing thugs* (Watch the opening sequence again, Fedora. Doesn't one of those other THUGS try to stab Indy?) is not better than they are. He's still a thug. Look up the definiton for thug if you don't believe me. I'm tired of reading the dictionary to you. : : : As for Indy, if you really want to go there (since we are talking about LC, the only movie in which Fedora was a character), he was a somewhat shady character in Raiders, but not in ToD and especially not in LC. Even in Raiders, Indy upholds certain standards. : : : If I had to make a simple comparison that won't overtax your mind, then I'd say that the Fedora character is somewhere between between Indy and Belloq. Quiet frankly, Belloq seems a lot smarter than Fedora. Fedora just stands around all the time. : : : Anyway, Indy's ultimate goal is to to make sure that the artifact, be it the Ark, the Sankara stones, or the Grail, is safe from the likes of Fedora, Panama Hat, Belloq and Donovan. : : : If Indy were a thug he'd keep the Sankara stones, he would let Willie fall to her (SCREAMING) death, he'd leave Marion behind and he'd blow the Ark to bits. Etc and so forth. : : : FG : : : PS: Stop stirring trouble, Steve. If you want to make it personal, do it somewhere else. :p : : : : : : : : : : : : ...I mean that, really. I enjoy all of this FG. And as long as you take the time to write like you do, I assume you derive some sort out of it as well. Thanks for your remarks. regards, Fedora : I don't reply to your posts for your benefit, but for the benefit of others. :p : Anyway, I find it interesting and revealing that you, the one who has over and over said that everything was black&white, was ready to proclaim Indy and Fedora "rascals" (your word). I'd love to know (if only I cared) to know where you draw the line between good and evil and how a "rascal" ranks. : I myself don't have a problem saying that Indy (in Raiders) is a somewhat shady character (his methods are a bit negligent) whose ultimate goals are noble (saving Marion, that rat Satipo , the Ark). After all, a flawed character is much more human and interesting than an untarnished (dare I say immaculate?) hero. : Moreover, I stand by my original thought, too. Fedora is a thug. On a gray scale he'd be a medium gray. : FG : : : :

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