Re: Copyright laws...and actually Indy related...

Posted by Michaelson from em12-686.utsi.edu on January 09, 1999 at 13:14:05:

In Reply to: Copyright laws... posted by ~The Raider~ on January 08, 1999 at 19:15:27:

:
: : : I've just been re-reading the December PC Gamer cover story on Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.

: : : They mention that the voice of Indy in the game will not be supplied by Harrison Ford- nothing new there. But they say that since the Indy character and Harrison Ford's likeness exist as separate copyrights, the game developers must make the character look and sound like Indy, but not Harrison Ford.

: : : I admit I know next to nothing about copyright law, but if this is the case, why does all of the cover art for the novels have good likenesses of Harrison Ford? And in The Fate of Atlantis, when you look at a magazine, you see a good likeness of Harrison Ford as Indy, along with Sophia. Similarly, a lot of Star Wars products have a likeness of Ford as Han Solo.

: : : I can see them not being able to afford Ford, but it just seems a little bizarre that they would have to intentionally make the computer character not look like what we've come to expect Indy to look like.

: : : Just a thought.

: : : BMan

: : Well, I'm aware of the problem that copyrighting or licensing images is a separate negotiable item than the licensing or copyrighting of a character. Since James Bond constantly pops up here, we'll use him as an example....you've had a multitude of actors playing the character, and each and every actor "owns" his image, as you and I do ourselves, unless a contract agreement has been signed allowing another party to use our image for monetary gain. Newspaper and videographers have to carry appearance releases anywhere we go to have individuals give written permission to use their image when the image shot is used for publication or broadcast. Therefore, it's possible that the game company got the LucasFilm groups contractual blessing to use Indiana Jones, but not Harrison Ford's blessing to use his image as the character. Apparently they didn't have that problem with the novels or comic books portrayls. Good observation. Unless you dig into the mire of copyright laws (and in my business, I've HAD to!) this isn't real apparent, and there is still a huge amount of gray area to play with until the laws are tightened up to include the rapidly growing area of games, video, interactive broadcast and internet. The laws still apply in early 1970 terms. Regards. Michaelson

: One might say these laws are getting ridiculous, but where can we draw the line? I can see taking someone elses work and saying you did it, but in our independent film company we have used Metallica songs as background music. Unfortunalty, we realized we might not be able to sell these videos (not that we ever finished filming) unless we get the band's permission to use the song. I find this particularly ridiculous, as we would give credit to the band, and not say we didn't come up with the song on our own. Plus, it's not like no one would recognize the famous "Enter Sandman" as Metallica's work, not ours. But then the band would not recieve any profits for our use of the song. It's not like the song's an integral part of the movie, either.

: Not using someone's face, I can see. But when it stems to background music...can't this count as a gray area?

: Just some thoughts on a debatable issue.

: ~The Raider

I agree with your statements, but believe me, it's been a windmill that's been "tilted" before, and not many have won the fight. Unless you do an outright buyout, or pay a needledrop fee for each and every piece of music usage, along with credit and copies of YOUR work being supplied to the copyright office to show proof of that usage as per contract, you'll get your backside sued in very short time. The first thing I ran into on coming to work at this location was to find that the previous individual who held my position had been using various TV themes on videotapes that were literally shipped all over the world without permission. That was stopped post haste, let me tell you! In terms of using a copyrighted song, there is no such thing as a gray area according to the laws, whether as a main theme or background sound. They're even getting to the point of placing advertisements in the video trades stating that unless a videocassette company has JVC's specific licensing to use the symbol VHS on their tape boxes, they will be sued to fullest extent of the law, and then it goes on listing what companies in the US do have the licensing right. All others have now officially been given warning that unless they comply, heads will roll in court. There are times you wonder if it's safe to breathe anymore without litegation. Interesting points you have, and I agree with you completely as an editer myself. The courts just don't see us eye to eye now. Regards. Michaelson

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A big money grab.... ~The Raider~ 19:50:42 1/09/99 (0)

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: : 
: : : : I've just been re-reading the December PC Gamer cover story on Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.

: : : : They mention that the voice of Indy in the game will not be supplied by Harrison Ford- nothing new there.  But they say that since the Indy character and Harrison Ford's likeness exist as separate copyrights, the game developers must make the character look and sound like Indy, but not Harrison Ford.

: : : : I admit I know next to nothing about copyright law, but if this is the case, why does all of the cover art for the novels have good likenesses of Harrison Ford?  And in The Fate of Atlantis, when you look at a magazine, you see a good likeness of Harrison Ford as Indy, along with Sophia.  Similarly, a lot of Star Wars products have a likeness of Ford as Han Solo.

: : : : I can see them not being able to afford Ford, but it just seems a little bizarre that they would have to intentionally make the computer character not look like what we've come to expect Indy to look like.

: : : : Just a thought.

: : : : BMan

: : : Well, I'm aware of the problem that copyrighting or licensing images is a separate negotiable item than the licensing or copyrighting of a character. Since James Bond constantly pops up here, we'll use him as an example....you've had a multitude of actors playing the character, and each and every actor "owns" his image, as you and I do ourselves, unless a contract agreement has been signed allowing another party to use our image for monetary gain. Newspaper and videographers have to carry appearance releases anywhere we go to have individuals give written permission to use their image when the image shot is used for publication or broadcast. Therefore, it's possible that the game company got the LucasFilm groups contractual blessing to use Indiana Jones, but not Harrison Ford's blessing to use his image as the character. Apparently they didn't have that problem with the novels or comic books portrayls. Good observation. Unless you dig into the mire of copyright laws (and in my business, I've HAD to!) this isn't real apparent, and there is still a huge amount of gray area to play with until the laws are tightened up to include the rapidly growing area of games, video, interactive broadcast and internet. The laws still apply in early 1970 terms. Regards. Michaelson

: : One might say these laws are getting ridiculous, but where can we draw the line?  I can see taking someone elses work and saying you did it, but in our independent film company we have used Metallica songs as background music.  Unfortunalty, we realized we might not be able to sell these videos (not that we ever finished filming) unless we get the band's permission to use the song.  I find this particularly ridiculous, as we would give credit to the band, and not say we didn't come up with the song on our own.  Plus, it's not like no one would recognize the famous "Enter Sandman" as Metallica's work, not ours.  But then the band would not recieve any profits for our use of the song.  It's not like the song's an integral part of the movie, either.

: : Not using someone's face, I can see.  But when it stems to background music...can't this count as a gray area?

: : Just some thoughts on a debatable issue.

: : ~The Raider

: I agree with your statements, but believe me, it's been a windmill that's been "tilted" before, and not many have won the fight. Unless you do an outright buyout, or pay a needledrop fee for each and every piece of music usage, along with credit and copies of YOUR work being supplied to the copyright office to show proof of that usage as per contract, you'll get your backside sued in very short time. The first thing I ran into on coming to work at this location was to find that the previous individual who held my position had been using various TV themes on videotapes that were literally shipped all over the world without permission. That was stopped post haste, let me tell you! In terms of using a copyrighted song, there is no such thing as a gray area according to the laws, whether as a main theme or background sound. They're even getting to the point of placing advertisements in the video trades stating that unless a videocassette company has JVC's specific licensing  to use the symbol VHS on their tape boxes, they will be sued to fullest extent of the law, and then it goes on listing what companies in the US do have the licensing right. All others have now officially been given warning that unless they comply, heads will roll in court. There are times you wonder if it's safe to breathe anymore without litegation. Interesting points you have, and I agree with you completely as an editer myself. The courts just don't see us eye to eye now. Regards. Michaelson

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