Engineers!!

Posted by Michaelson from em12-686.utsi.edu on November 23, 1999 at 08:09:15:

In Reply to: Re: What is the difference between hide and lambskin? posted by Patterson on November 22, 1999 at 10:44:45:

: : : Boy am I confused! I am close to ordering a wested, and had made my mind up to order the new lambskin. However, after reading a few posts, I am now not so sure. Am I right in presuming that the lambskin is thinner than the hide? I understand the hide material is used for the pre-distressed jackets and I guess it must have to be thicker in order to weather the abuse given it during the procedure. I saw a picture of Patterson's hide jacket in Indy Gear, and if I remember correctly, he had ordered a predistresed jacket, and wested forgot to distress it. That jacket looks great! Can you order this hide jacket undistressed? And does anyone know the difference between hide and skin? Is it on the same basis a split cowhide versus full grain hide? Seems to me if the hide is thicker, it would be more durable, and last longer. Also does the hide have the same grain pattern ?

: : It's simply the age of the animal that the leather was obtained from. The younger animal has the softer yet denser fibered skin that translates to the same type of finished leather. The hide is from an older, or at least more mature animal that makes the leather heavier due to that more advanced age. Hope this helps. Regards. Michaelson

: On durability, the jury is out. The people at Wested will tell you that the hide is more durable. Logic would lead me to believe that a denser material ought to be more durable overall, pound for pound. The fact that the hide is heavier overall tells me that it’s probably a wash.

: One discussion on the subject that might be worth rehashing - awhile back I asked my brother-in-law and one of his friends about the difference. They are both Boeing engineers, and really got into the subject, especially after I gave Michaelson's description of the two materials, i.e. thinner/lighter/denser vs. thicker/heavier/less dense. Assuming that they are roughly similar on a pound-for-pound basis, their conclusion was that the real difference would be in the material’s ability to withstand intense trauma. They guessed that the lighter more dense material would be more likely to tear if caught on a sharp object, while the heavier material would probably fare better.

: Not to offend any engineers out there, but can't you just see these guys with pocket protectors really getting into this.

: Cheers!

: Patterson

You said a mouth full, Patterson! I work with them everyday here, and they'll worry a problem to death, whether it needs worrying or not. As to the info I gave, I'm only repeating what I was told by an individual who works at a local tannery here in Tullahoma, TN. Worth baseball company is located here, and there are two tanneries and one coat factory located within 5 miles of each other. They make the leather for baseball, softball, and coat production at plants also located near by. They say that strength is based on the fiber per inch measurement, not the actual weight of the material. The higher ended fiber is the skin, where the lower is the hide. The fly in this ointment is that the literal physical weight of the hide allows itself to absorb more seen abuse than the skin simply because of the mass that is there TO absorb said abuse. Skin, on the other hand, is not as prone to tear as the hide can, as it will rebound more quickly where the hide would tear. As you say, engineers can have a field day with this one. Regards. Michaelson

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: : : :      Boy am I confused! I am close to ordering a wested, and had made my mind up to order the new lambskin. However, after reading a few posts, I am now not so sure. Am I right in presuming that the lambskin is thinner than the hide? I understand the hide material is used for the pre-distressed jackets and I guess it must have to be thicker in order to weather the abuse given it during the procedure. I saw a picture of Patterson's hide jacket in Indy Gear, and if I remember correctly, he had ordered a predistresed jacket, and wested forgot to distress it. That jacket looks great! Can you order this hide jacket undistressed? And does anyone know the difference between hide and skin? Is it on the same basis a split cowhide versus full grain hide? Seems to me if the hide is thicker, it would be more durable, and last longer. Also does the hide have the same grain pattern ?

: : : It's simply the age of the animal that the leather was obtained from. The younger animal has the softer yet denser fibered skin that translates to the same type of finished leather. The hide is from an older, or at least more mature animal that makes the leather heavier due to that more advanced age. Hope this helps. Regards. Michaelson

: : On durability, the jury is out.  The people at Wested will tell you that the hide is more durable.  Logic would lead me to believe that a denser material ought to be more durable overall, pound for pound.  The fact that the hide is heavier overall tells me that it’s probably a wash.

: : One discussion on the subject that might be worth rehashing - awhile back I asked my brother-in-law and one of his friends about the difference. They are both Boeing engineers, and really got into the subject, especially after I gave Michaelson's description of the two materials, i.e. thinner/lighter/denser vs. thicker/heavier/less dense.  Assuming that they are roughly similar on a pound-for-pound basis, their conclusion was that the real difference would be in the material’s ability to withstand intense trauma.  They guessed that the lighter more dense material would be more likely to tear if caught on a sharp object, while the heavier material would probably fare better.

: : Not to offend any engineers out there, but can't you just see these guys with pocket protectors really getting into this.

: : Cheers!

: : Patterson

: You said a mouth full, Patterson! I work with them everyday here, and they'll worry a problem to death, whether it needs worrying or not. As to the info I gave, I'm only repeating what I was told by an individual who works at a local tannery here in Tullahoma, TN. Worth baseball company is located here, and there are two tanneries and one coat factory located within 5 miles of each other. They make the leather for baseball, softball, and coat production at plants also located near by. They say that strength is based on the fiber per inch measurement, not the actual weight of the material. The higher ended fiber is the skin, where the lower is the hide. The fly in this ointment is that the literal physical weight of the hide allows itself to absorb more seen abuse than the skin simply because of the mass that is there TO absorb said abuse. Skin, on the other hand, is not as prone to tear as the hide can, as it will rebound more quickly where the hide would tear. As you say, engineers can have a field day with this one. Regards. Michaelson

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