Re: These are the kind of discussions that keep me coming back to this forum.

Posted by Ultraman Tiga from ts006d30.las-nv.concentric.net on December 18, 1999 at 02:28:14:

In Reply to: These are the kind of discussions that keep me coming back to this forum. posted by ROB T. on December 18, 1999 at 00:00:17:

: I can't really comment on the character development in "Young Indy" since I've only seen a few episodes but I agree with your assertion that Indy in the films is a bit of a bastard. I've said many times on this forum that his treatment of Marion is reprehensible. Most people excuse it as typical for the times (I disagree).
: I can't exactly agree with you about Belloq being a class act. He seems more like fool's gold (shiny on the outside but worthless). But I like that Belloq is every bit Indy's equal and maybe even a little sharper. I can't go so far as to call him classy; he aligns himself with the Nazis and seems intent on stealing the Ark from his employers, his loyalty appears to be for sale to the highest bidder.

As far as the classy bit: he's never as sweaty and as dirty as Indy, and he treats MArion way better than Jones ever did. As far as his loyalty, you are so right: that's what makes him a mercenary! That's why the NAzi's had to hire him! Of course Belloq, underneath the facade, was evil, and that's that's why the Ark swallowed his soul.
That is the very point of the movie.

: I think the best example of Indy as grave robber is the opening scene of "Temple of Doom." Here Indy steals a corpse (Nurhachi) and not to be donated to some museum but for sale to a gangster for the price of a diamond.
: But I don't think Indy is totally irredeemable. I like the fact that in all three films the main story involves Indy searching for an item for some bigger purpose. He needs to keep the Ark away from the Nazis. In "Temple" he needs to restore the stones to their rightful place to save the children of the village. In "Last Crusade" he's really only interested in rescuing his father. So even though Indy is interested in fortune and glory he is able to set aside his personal ambitions and see the bigger picture. His younger adventures are probably the reason for this latent patriotism that surfaces when the need arises.

Not exactly. Remember, Indy wasn't entirely sure he belived the villager's story until he met and spoke to Chatter Lal. He still has hesitations while inside the temple; he hears the unmistakable cries of the children and almost turns around! His mind was on those stones, because they would lead to the fortune and glory. Marvel comic's adaption had a great line in it: "I could leave. I SHOULD leave."
In Last Crusade, he didn't give a rat's ass about the grail (until the end); he was merely looking for his father. It was when he realizd the NAzi's intentions that he decided to go after it. As for the ark, I'm replying to someone below that you should check out.

: I don't know if Indy's attitude was altered by his affair with Young Marion. Or if some unknown adventure cost him his idealism and hardened his soul.

See any episode of the show for an answer to that. Maybe look into the Raiders novel too. It's pretty clear that Indy is putting up a fake front when he first confronts Marion in her bar in the film. he even had to ask Marcus about her, quite worriedly, before he even left.

: I really wish they'd make a young Indy film about the affair with Marion and Indy's falling out with Abner. I think there's a hell of a story to be told there and it's an important part of the puzzle that's missing. In fact, I'd like to see that story (even just as a novel) even more than Indy IV.

BTW, have you watched "Oganga" and "Phantom Train" yet?

TIGA

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: : I can't really comment on the character development in "Young Indy" since I've only seen a few episodes but I agree with your assertion that Indy in the films is a bit of a bastard. I've said many times on this forum that his treatment of Marion is reprehensible. Most people excuse it as typical for the times (I disagree). 
: : I can't exactly agree with you about Belloq being a class act. He seems more like fool's gold (shiny on the outside but worthless). But I like that Belloq is every bit Indy's equal and maybe even a little sharper. I can't go so far as to call him classy; he aligns himself with the Nazis and seems intent on stealing the Ark from his employers, his loyalty appears to be for sale to the highest bidder.

: As far as the classy bit: he's never as sweaty and as dirty as Indy, and he treats MArion way better than Jones ever did.  As far as his loyalty, you are so right: that's what makes him a mercenary!  That's why the NAzi's had to hire him!  Of course Belloq, underneath the facade, was evil, and that's that's why the Ark swallowed his soul.
: That is the very point of the movie.

: : I think the best example of Indy as grave robber is the opening scene of "Temple of Doom." Here Indy steals a corpse (Nurhachi) and not to be donated to some museum but for sale to a gangster for the price of a diamond.
: : But I don't think Indy is totally irredeemable. I like the fact that in all three films the main story involves Indy searching for an item for some bigger purpose. He needs to keep the Ark away from the Nazis. In "Temple" he needs to restore the stones to their rightful place to save the children of the village. In "Last Crusade" he's really only interested in rescuing his father. So even though Indy is interested in fortune and glory he is able to set aside his personal ambitions and see the bigger picture. His younger adventures are probably the reason for this latent patriotism that surfaces when the need arises.

: Not exactly.  Remember, Indy wasn't entirely sure he belived the villager's story until he met and spoke to Chatter Lal.  He still has hesitations while inside the temple; he hears the unmistakable cries of the children and almost turns around!  His mind was on those stones, because they would lead to the fortune and glory.  Marvel comic's adaption had a great line in it: "I could leave.  I SHOULD leave."
: In Last Crusade, he didn't give a rat's ass about the grail (until the end); he was merely looking for his father.  It was when he realizd the NAzi's intentions that he decided to go after it.  As for the ark, I'm replying to someone below that you should check out.

: 
: : I don't know if Indy's attitude was altered by his affair with Young Marion. Or if some unknown adventure cost him his idealism and hardened his soul.

: See any episode of the show for an answer to that.  Maybe look into the Raiders novel too.  It's pretty clear that Indy is putting up a fake front when he first confronts Marion in her bar in the film.  he even had to ask Marcus about her, quite worriedly, before he even left.

: : I really wish they'd make a young Indy film about the affair with Marion and Indy's falling out with Abner. I think there's a hell of a story to be told there and it's an important part of the puzzle that's missing. In fact, I'd like to see that story (even just as a novel) even more than Indy IV.

: BTW, have you watched "Oganga" and "Phantom Train" yet?

: TIGA

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