LEAP OF EXPLANATION- opinion

Posted by Yurik from 1Cust163.tnt5.columbia.sc.da.uu.net on April 26, 2001 at 16:27:48:

In Reply to: Indy's 'leap of Faith' posted by Indiana Dog on April 26, 2001 at 14:27:09:

I've been waiting someone to bring up the subject. Let's clear a few things up before I begin. First, I am a Christian. In fact, I'm a campus minister on a college campus. So, of course, these themes in the films have always gotten my attention. So, I have a very serious faith and world-view that I live out in real-life. Now, let's talk about the "fictional" world of Indiana Jones, two very different things.

Here are a few things we can observe about Mr. Jones:

1. His father WAS A CHRISTIAN! His father had a literal belief that, not only Jesus existed, but that he was supernatural. I think that this was beyond simply his obsession with the Grail. I believe that a faith in Jesus of Nazareth's identity and work led to his obession with the grial(since it was the closest thing to touching Him(Jesus)). He was well aware of the Grail's power: "If the Nazi's get the grail, the dark legions will march all over the face of the earth". You can't beleive in the grail without believing in Jesus. If you don't, then it's simply a really neat artifact of a famous historical character. However, Henry Sr. "knew" the power. Therefore, to him was much more than an artifact.

Also, Henry beleived in such a thing called "blasphemy". One who believes that Jesus can be blasphemed, believes that all other things that claim to be God or divine are FALSE and unworthy of such a title. Of course, when he slapped Indy, it was for arrogance(using Jesus' name as a curse), with is a mild form of blasphemy(thinking you are above God).

You could say these things about Brody as well. He says countless things that define his personal faith.

Now, concerning morality, Henry Sr. is not he best example of a Christian lifestyle with his little affair with Elsa. However, faith defines a Christian, not sinlessness. Christians are NOT perfect, nor should they be expected to be. Therefore, simply because he was committing an affair of fornication with Elsa does not strip him of his faith.

2. Indy was heavily influenced, not only by Grail-Lor, but also Bibilical belief. "Haven't you guys ever been to Sunday School?" he asks the intelligence officers in Raiders. Little Indy was a church-goer, along with the entire family. Now, notice that I'm only talking about influence, not faith. There was a certain "fear of God" Indy had that he had learned to respect his whole life. Notice his instructions to Marion during the opening of the Ark. "Whatever you do, keep your eyes shut . . .". Indy knew the historical accounts of God's wrath, and actually beleived they were real. Again, this is only a belief in the Biblical God, not Jesus of Nazareth. We don't know very much about Indy's faith development growing up. However, after being slapped he told his father, "This is an obession, Dad! I never understood it!". This tells you where Indy was in his faith in Christ . . . not understanding it and probably not having it.

3. Now look at the leap. Just because Indy was told to ask himself "what he beleived", then went into the cave after the grail, did not mean he had a Christian faith at that point. He had no other option but to go after the grail as Donovan ordered him to do. He did not believe the grail could heal, but was willing to investigate whether the grail could for the sake of his father. Wouldn't you, Christian or not?

Going through each trap, there was a biblical lesson for Indy to learn. The first, humility. A very important lesson for someone like Indy to learn. The second, a God to be believed in by name, not just by idea or logic. God has sought intimacy with his creation and shared his personal name, Jehovah(or, Yahweh in the original Hebrew, we think pronounced "yaw-way"). The third is faith, which is very different than believe. Belief is a willingness to "think, know or believe", while faith is a willingness to "do". Belief is lazy, while faith is active.

I think in that desperate moment many things could have gone through Indy's head and heart. Faced with a bottomless canyon with the grail on the other side, hearing Brody yell, "hurry". It was time for Indy to put himself aside, understand that there was no macho way to win this, beleive that God(Yahweh) is real and trust that what his father believes is hoenstly true. I don't know about you guys, but when I was a child I believed anything my father told me. I think Indy was willing to believe what his father had always believed. And he takes his first step out. I'm sorry, but that first required Indy to have a Christian faith OF HIS OWN. Whether that is something that exists in the character after that is unknown.

4. Now, a very important point. I think that the world of Indiana Jones is a "relative world". In his world all things are true. Any religion that he observes will demonstrate itself as ligitimate and true. Read the IJ novels, there are no hoaxes. Every tye of supernatural activity is absolutely true. If it weren't, then Indiana Jones' adventures would be more like Scooby-Doo, uncovering all other beliefs as hoaxes. Now, back to real-life. I don't believe in relativism, I believe in a world of absolutes and deceptions. I believe in a universe of order that sometimes disguises itself as chaos. But, that's me, not necessarily Indy. If that were Indy, then he wouldn't be a very popular character to much of the public.

Follow Ups:

Re: LEAP OF EXPLANATION- opinion J.C. 23:54:00 4/26/2001 (0)
sorry about the typos, I was in a hurry(nm) Yurik 16:35:19 4/26/2001 (0)

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: I've been waiting someone to bring up the subject.  Let's clear a few things up before I begin.  First, I am a Christian.  In fact, I'm a campus minister on a college campus.  So, of course, these themes in the films have always gotten my attention.  So, I have a very serious faith and world-view that I live out in real-life.  Now, let's talk about the "fictional" world of Indiana Jones, two very different things.

: Here are a few things we can observe about Mr. Jones:

: 1.  His father WAS A CHRISTIAN!  His father had a literal belief that, not only Jesus existed, but that he was supernatural.  I think that this was beyond simply his obsession with the Grail.  I believe that a faith in Jesus of Nazareth's identity and work led to his obession with the grial(since it was the closest thing to touching Him(Jesus)).  He was well aware of the Grail's power: "If the Nazi's get the grail, the dark legions will march all over the face of the earth".  You can't beleive in the grail without believing in Jesus.  If you don't, then it's simply a really neat artifact of a famous historical character.  However, Henry Sr. "knew" the power.  Therefore, to him was much more than an artifact.

: Also, Henry beleived in such a thing called "blasphemy".  One who believes that Jesus can be blasphemed, believes that all other things that claim to be God or divine are FALSE and unworthy of such a title.  Of course, when he slapped Indy, it was for arrogance(using Jesus' name as a curse), with is a mild form of blasphemy(thinking you are above God).

: You could say these things about Brody as well.  He says countless things that define his personal faith.

: Now, concerning morality, Henry Sr. is not he best example of a Christian lifestyle with his little affair with Elsa.  However, faith defines a Christian, not sinlessness.  Christians are NOT perfect, nor should they be expected to be.  Therefore, simply because he was committing an affair of fornication with Elsa does not strip him of his faith.

: 2.  Indy was heavily influenced, not only by Grail-Lor, but also Bibilical belief.  "Haven't you guys ever been to Sunday School?" he asks the intelligence officers in Raiders.  Little Indy was a church-goer, along with the entire family.  Now, notice that I'm only talking about influence, not faith.  There was a certain "fear of God" Indy had that he had learned to respect his whole life.  Notice his instructions to Marion during the opening of the Ark.  "Whatever you do, keep your eyes shut . . .".  Indy knew the historical accounts of God's wrath, and actually beleived they were real.  Again, this is only a belief in the Biblical God, not Jesus of Nazareth.  We don't know very much about Indy's faith development growing up.  However, after being slapped he told his father, "This is an obession, Dad!  I never understood it!".  This tells you where Indy was in his faith in Christ . . . not understanding it and probably not having it.

: 3.  Now look at the leap.  Just because Indy was told to ask himself "what he beleived", then went into the cave after the grail, did not mean he had a Christian faith at that point.  He had no other option but to go after the grail as Donovan ordered him to do.  He did not believe the grail could heal, but was willing to investigate whether the grail could for the sake of his father.  Wouldn't you, Christian or not?

: Going through each trap, there was a biblical lesson for Indy to learn.  The first, humility.  A very important lesson for someone like Indy to learn.  The second, a God to be believed in by name, not just by idea or logic.  God has sought intimacy with his creation and shared his personal name, Jehovah(or, Yahweh in the original Hebrew, we think pronounced "yaw-way").  The third is faith, which is very different than believe.  Belief is a willingness to "think, know or believe", while faith is a willingness to "do".  Belief is lazy, while faith is active.

: I think in that desperate moment many things could have gone through Indy's head and heart.  Faced with a bottomless canyon with the grail on the other side, hearing Brody yell, "hurry".  It was time for Indy to put himself aside, understand that there was no macho way to win this, beleive that God(Yahweh) is real and trust that what his father believes is hoenstly true.  I don't know about you guys, but when I was a child I believed anything my father told me.  I think Indy was willing to believe what his father had always believed.  And he takes his first step out.  I'm sorry, but that first required Indy to have a Christian faith OF HIS OWN.  Whether that is something that exists in the character after that is unknown.

: 4.  Now, a very important point.  I think that the world of Indiana Jones is a "relative world".  In his world all things are true.  Any religion that he observes will demonstrate itself as ligitimate and true.  Read the IJ novels, there are no hoaxes.  Every tye of supernatural activity is absolutely true.  If it weren't, then Indiana Jones' adventures would be more like Scooby-Doo, uncovering all other beliefs as hoaxes.  Now, back to real-life.  I don't believe in relativism, I believe in a world of absolutes and deceptions.  I believe in a universe of order that sometimes disguises itself as chaos.  But, that's me, not necessarily Indy.  If that were Indy, then he wouldn't be a very popular character to much of the public.

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