Re: Immortality without Faith?!?

Posted by Goodsport from ivy.tc.pw.com on May 28, 1999 at 15:05:19:

In Reply to: Re: How Should Indy Die?? posted by Short Round on May 28, 1999 at 13:23:52:

:
: : : :
: : : : : I'd imagine that unless Indy decided to go out adventuring one last time, at the age of 93, he did INDEED die in bed of old age. (After all the thrills his life brought to him, the man deserved a rest).

: : : : : Aragorn

: : : : You're forgetting, he to a slug from the Grail so old age won't kill him

: : :
: : : Actually, I think that the Knight told Indy and his group not to cross the Great Seal after drinking from the Grail. Since they did, I'm pretty sure that his immortality (at least in this life) was voided!

: : :
: : : -G

: : Actually, one drink from the Grail is only effective for a short period of time!! It wasn't that Indy could not cross the Great Seal; it was the Grail that couldn't cross. That was the price of immortality. Another source, I believe it was the novelization, had the Grail Knight explaining that the reason his strength had left him was that he refused to drink from the grail each time he felt unworthy. On a side note, I've often wondered if the Grail Knight died when the dust belched from the door of the Temple of the Crescent Moon, or if he died later from old age because he lacked the Grail. Just a thought.

: : See ya,

: : The Man with the Hat

: :
: : "Fortune and Glory, Kid. Fortune and Glory."

: It seems stupid why your immortality works for a short time. "Immortality" is what the Highlander has. "Immortality" is what Raiden from Mortal Kombat has(HEY!!! Both of those characters were Christopher Lambert!!) And a short time isn't 700 years. In real life in the Biblical days people did live 700 years and older, so taken a drink from the Grail, sheesh they'ed live forever until someone chops their head of like on Highlander. And that's why Shang Tzung an Shao Khan kept on returning for each game and movie, TV SERIES EVEN!!!

For one thing, those other movies and TV shows you mentioned have nothing to do with Indy... since they had different creators, directors, etc., they each have different visions on how immortality was obtained (according to Highlander 2, for example, "Immortals" were born like that - from a different planet, no less!).

As far as the theory of "I'll just drink from the Grail and I am automatically immortal", it doesn't quite work like that. Anyone who drinks from it must do so either with Faith (it is a holy object, after all), do so with noble intentions or both. To drink from the Grail having neither of these won't do the drinker squat!

Case in point: Donovan's motivation for immortality was greed. Also, he took one of the golden "Grails" Elsa chose for him, calling it the "Cup of Kings" - he accepted it only because it was made with gold and had jewels on it.

Indy's motivation, on the other hand, was to save his father's life (a noble intention). He may or may not have even wanted to drink from the Grail in the first place, but did so to see if it was the right one to help his dad. The fact that he knew that the one he chose was the "Cup of a Carpenter" helped, of course. :)

-G

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Re: In addition... Goodsport 15:09:20 5/28/99 (0)

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: : 
: : : : : 
: : : : : : I'd imagine that unless Indy decided to go out adventuring one last time, at the age of 93, he did INDEED die in bed of old age.  (After all the thrills his life brought to him, the man deserved a rest).

: : : : : : Aragorn

: : : : : You're forgetting, he to a slug from the Grail so old age won't kill him

: : : : 
: : : : Actually, I think that the Knight told Indy and his group not to cross the Great Seal after drinking from the Grail.  Since they did, I'm pretty sure that his immortality (at least in this life) was voided!

: : : : 
: : : : -G

: : :  Actually, one drink from the Grail is only effective for a short period of time!! It wasn't that Indy could not cross the Great Seal; it was the Grail that couldn't cross. That was the price of immortality. Another source, I believe it was the novelization, had the Grail Knight explaining that the reason his strength had left him was that he refused to drink from the grail each time he felt unworthy. On a side note, I've often wondered if the Grail Knight died when the dust belched from the door of the Temple of the Crescent Moon, or if he died later from old age because he lacked the Grail. Just a thought.

: : :                                                                                       See ya,

: : :                                                                                   The Man with the Hat

: : : 
: : :                                                                            "Fortune and Glory, Kid. Fortune and Glory."

: : It seems stupid why your immortality works for a short time. "Immortality" is what the Highlander has. "Immortality" is what Raiden from Mortal Kombat has(HEY!!! Both of those characters were Christopher Lambert!!) And a short time isn't 700 years. In real life in the Biblical days people did live 700 years and older, so taken a drink from the Grail, sheesh they'ed live forever until someone chops their head of like on Highlander. And that's why Shang Tzung an Shao Khan kept on returning for each game and movie, TV SERIES EVEN!!!

: 
: For one thing, those other movies and TV shows you mentioned have nothing to do with Indy... since they had different creators, directors, etc., they each have different visions on how immortality was obtained (according to Highlander 2, for example, "Immortals" were born like that - from a different planet, no less!).

: As far as the theory of "I'll just drink from the Grail and I am automatically immortal", it doesn't quite work like that.  Anyone who drinks from it must do so either with Faith (it is a holy object, after all), do so with noble intentions or both.  To drink from the Grail having neither of these won't do the drinker squat!

: Case in point: Donovan's motivation for immortality was greed.  Also, he took one of the golden "Grails" Elsa chose for him, calling it the "Cup of Kings" - he accepted it only because it was made with gold and had jewels on it.

: Indy's motivation, on the other hand, was to save his father's life (a noble intention).  He may or may not have even wanted to drink from the Grail in the first place, but did so to see if it was the right one to help his dad.  The fact that he knew that the one he chose was the "Cup of a Carpenter" helped, of course.   :)

: 
: -G

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